The Oolite Extended Project - Fork, no oxp

[Kaks]

For me, the best bit about all CC licence description pages is the last line at the bottom:

"This is a human-readable summary of the Legal Code"

Kind of says it all!

[Cody]

"This is a human-readable summary of the Legal Code"

That's priceless. Thanks, Kaks.

[LittleBear]

Hmm, sorry if I started a war. Didn't mean to.

All OXPs realeased for Oolite complement each other, with the exception of OSE. OSE overwites the code of any other OXP. Lestrade, you have decided that you and you alone will be the God of OXPs.

To give an example: In Assassins.oxp I equiped the rebels with Selezen's Cobra Njx ship. I asked Selezen first if he was ok with this and he said yes. But my Assassins.oxp does not overwrite anything Selezen has written. If a player has Selezen's OXP installed and mine then the Cobra Njx ship exists in the Ooniverse and the player may encounter NPCs flying Selezen's ship. If the player has only Selezen's OXP installed then he sees Njx Cobras flown by traders and pirates. If he has both installed then in addition he sees Njx ships flow by pirates, tarders and my special NPC rebels.

BUT my OXP does not overwrite or change anything Selezen has written or might write in the future. YOURS DOES. You stop me from writing code for Oolite as you overwrite any code I submitt.

I'm sorry if you can't see the distriction.

[Thargoid]

All OXPs realeased for Oolite complement each other, with the exception of OSE. OSE overwites the code of any other OXP. Lestrade, you have decided that you and you alone will be the God of OXPs.

See my comment in the other thread. These days it's (or was) aaaaa_OSE, with the express aim of underwriting rather than overwriting OXPs (if the two are in together, it's OSE that gets overwritten rather than the original one).

[Commander Khai]

One of the really fun things about Oolite is choosing the OXPs and deciding what missions to run and so on. This can be hard to do on zero knowledge because you don't really know what you are getting. The Wiki gives really detailed background on some and next to nothing on others. I've built up a few with trial and error, run basic missions like Longway and Ionics ... I'm in G2 now ...Asteroid Storm and Ore processor is really great and allows me to build up income etc.etc.

Rather than try to create a mega OXP to deliver a complete game experience why not enhance the descriptors and develop recommended bundles for say novice level, average and advanced game play (or preferences such as mining, combat or trading). My other worry is how much my MacBook will cope with in terms of graphics (for well known hardware limitations) - obviously I can ask on Mac thread but also I am presuming some OXPs will be better on machines with more powerful graphics cards and so on - so that advice could be given.

[matthewfarmery]

It is a shame it has to come to this, however I also feel the new size is very large, also it depends on bandwidth as well, I do only have a finite amount, with the updates been so many, its starts to add up, from its size of about 400meg was fine, but around 900meg that is a lot, but also as a beta tester, and the small problem of getting anything meaningful from the logs, at least to try and track down what might be causing such a such problem, ie a crash, eith with the dev build, I feel 900meg and loads of scripts only added to the problem, which is another reason I worked away from the project,

no I wasn't bullied, but testing so much when many weren't finished would be a problem, its a shame it was cancelled, I liked the idea, but not the way things were done, again as I said in my previous post, if L was using other people's OXPs without permission, then yes it would only lead to trouble, I will not help if that is happening, an author has rights to his own work, and has rights if it included in RS / OSE, but as L was adding OXPs without permission, then that is very wrong indeed, its a shame that it has come to this, I thought there was an understanding that if a OXP was buggy and needed fixing the author would be contacted and THEY fix the problem, but I guess that wnet out of the window as well,

in the end, L, this is your own doing, again I can't help you farther as I want to stay out of this mod as you have been sloppy,

I guess this is my final say on this matter, again a real shame it has to come to this, a real shame indeed

[Lestradae]

... in the end, L, this is your own doing, again I can't help you farther as I want to stay out of this mod as you have been sloppy ...

<sigh>

I guess I will have to say a few words to this before the mythos of the Dark Lord Sung II. who wanted to steal everybody's work takes too much root - falsely so.

I do still read a bit here on the forums and few of the postings seem to grasp the most basic facts of the conflict that happened. The barely supressed, quite obvious hate in some of them makes me shudder.

At the same time, quite some other people contact me and either suggest or ask (to) me to stay on and find a way to continue the OE project.

I want to issue the following statement and ask everybody who has to have an opinion or was involved in the quarrel to please consider the following four facts for the future:

1) I was working on RS/OSE/OE under the assumption that a lot of people here had, too: That the basis of all work here - including oxps - was the Open Source CC-3 license issued for Oolite itself.

I was not deliberately not asking people, "stealing" stuff, acting in bad faith, or just ignoring wishes of original oxp's makers. I was actually working together/in contact with quite some oxp makers about issues of OE. Most have not spoken up. I fully understand why.

I never wanted to hurt people here and even less intended to. Had my assumption about the CC-3 license been correct, I would have been the one who was treated in bad faith if asked to ask for allowance for something granted by the C-3 license. My error was not to know that this license - according to Ahruman's interpretation, at least - does not cover oxps.

2) I am quite aware of the fact that legally and practically, it would in principle be possible to ramrod the OE concept through whatever if. Guess what? I don't do that - even if it bins two very intense years of work - because I do not want to hurt people and, I have to say, even less this great game. Think about that when next doing your five minutes of hate posting.

3) LittleBear claimed he left here because RS/OSE/OE would overwrite all his work. For such an extreme consequence as leaving the board entirely, and taking his RL profession into account (no secret here he's a lawyer) it's noticable that he didn't get the very fact right that presumably led to him leaving: For half a year now, and quite visible in the "new features" list of the meta-oxp, it was visible that it was explicitly designed to be overwritten by anything else to avoid the issues LB was complaining about!

4) I would have tried to cooperate much more had friendly debates been possible for me. Sometimes they were, and then, quietly, there was cooperation. Sometimes this was not possible, and then there was a hostile atmosphere on both sides that didn't help. It might take two for a quarrel, but it also takes two to make peace again.

Flame on, if you must, create an "evil mythos" about my time here, or leave the sinking ship as is befitting for ... trumbles ... in some cases, but please take the four above statements into account while at it. They are the truth as far as I am aware of it.

L

[another_commander]

I just wanted to remark that cross-posting on forums is considered bad form in general. Note to all for future reference: Please pick ONE topic to say what you want to say and stick to that. If you don't, then future duplicate posts will be removed by moderator's choice. Thanks.

Sorry for the interruption.

[ClymAngus]

I refer the honorable gentleman to his earlier statement.

https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?t=7069

You seen to me to be an all or nothing kind of guy. Which in some instances is good. But honestly what did you expect people to think after a rant like that?

As Tarrentino put it "Just because I'm a good director doesn't mean I'm a nice guy." and that's fine, at least his being honest. But being willing to burn up your entire back catalogue just to spite people on the board?

That takes the kind of will that makes most people uncomfortable. Yeah come up with innovative concepts and are a single minded ideas man. But you can be a real piece of work.

[DaddyHoggy]

L - the law is a big thing and LB specialises in defending very vulnerable people from the evils of the world - very honorable - he does not specialise in the requirements needed to understand the fine detail of licensing.

So you may just want to ease back a fraction in your generalisations and broad brush accusations there.

I thought I'd read every post concerning O(S)E and even I missed it going from zzzz_OSE to aaaa_OSE, so others, who were aware but had no interest in your oxp had very little chance of knowing about the recent change.

If you still believe in Oolite and your OXP then leave it out there - allow the community to do with it what they will, this, in essence is what you claimed you wanted all along and certainly what you were keen for all the other OXP creators to be party too.

Nobody really thought you'd actually gone - even if you weren't logging on so your user name didn't show up - Oolite is a hard thing to walk away from.

I hope, sooner, rather than later, it will all come good again - I was quite looking forward to buying a station...

Take Care,

DH

[Killer Wolf]

no doubt someone else will pick up and run w/ the concept of buying stations etc, if there's a demand for it. not sure of the point tho, unless there was plans to get income from it...?

[Selezen]

Les, yet again you reacted with the usual brand of random defensiveness that we've all come to know and love.

One thing I learned early on in forums is that generalisation is NOT your friend. Most forumgoers tend to read the posts carefully and thoroughly and always refer back to them when crafting a response. I'm not sure you do that when you send replies like the latest multiple "copy and paste" series.

Summary of situation. Les uses everyone's OXPs to make RS. Les doesn't ask if this is acceptable first. RS is released, everyone notes that their OXPs have been included and are being modified by that OXP and raises the point that they are not happy. Les's overall response to this is "tough".

That's where the bad feeling comes from, and that was before all the licensing hoohah. Everything else is secondary.

Why is it that any time anyone says anything negative about you, Les, we are making you out to be the most evil forum member ever? We're not. We ARE, however, entitled to an opinion. I personally like you when you talk over PM, since you are reasonable and friendly and rather intelligent. However, when you post on the forum itself you're hardly worth talking to most of the time.

I personally don't want you to leave. You contribute some fantastic ideas to the forum and have done some sterling work with RS and OSE. You just need to try and create OXPs that stand on their own merits and don't need to include everyone else's work. Write OSE as a stand-alone OXP and avoid all this licensing nonsense! OSE's concept on its own is superb! Why does it need to include a bunch of ship OXPs? Why not design a few of your own ships or work with someone else who might be willing to design and texture ships for you whilst you do the scripting and all the good stuff?

No-one likes these "meta-oxps" as they have been christened. How often it has been downloaded is irrelevant. Why? For starters not everyone who downloads it will like it. Some downloads will fail too. Secondly, each time a download is STARTED your counter will increment no matter if it completes successfully.

Anyway. Nuff said. I'd personally welcome you back with open arms if you decided to contribute again. Just stop trying to create world-shattering OXPs that incorporate everything that's ever been done anywhere. Just write your own stuff, package it and distribute it. We'll love it. But we do retain the right to voice our opinions.

[Vajo]

I guess I will have to say a few words to this before the mythos of the Dark Lord Sung II. who wanted to steal everybody's work takes too much root - falsely so.

I'm playing Sungs textures allways. I like them. And its sad that you now gone too. Oolite could be a very good game, but some members here are very strange.

[DaddyHoggy]

I guess I will have to say a few words to this before the mythos of the Dark Lord Sung II. who wanted to steal everybody's work takes too much root - falsely so.

I'm playing Sungs textures allways. I like them. And its sad that you now gone too. Oolite could be a very good game, but some members here are very strange.

A rather uncalled for statement Vajo - Oolite is way beyond "could" be a great game - Oolite IS a great game - and this is still the best online forum community anywhere - despite rather unhelpful broad brush statements such as yours.

If Sung's textures float your boat - good for you - can you still see Aegidian's original texture for the asp underneath the one Sung painted over the top? In fact didn't Sung ask people to stop using his textures before he disappeared? (these are genuine questions - I took Sung's textures off after he left (even though I said at the time I wouldn't!))

[Vajo]

and this is still the best online forum community anywhere

is it really?
I'm posting not often here, but i read often. And some members are not very likely.

In fact didn't Sung ask people to stop using his textures before he disappeared? (these are genuine questions - I took Sung's textures off after he left (even though I said at the time I wouldn't!))

I can't found such a statement?