The Oolite Extended Project - Fork, no oxp

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The question now is: are the appropriate ships added in the interstellar and system methods?

The Navy appears to be missing from system.

Separating the methods helps to reduce accidental double-calls and also makes it easier for a user to customize what does appear, so I'm all for that idea

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[Lestradae]

Looking forwards to get pmw57's newest script bundle, then, which I shall consider to be the next default version.

[pmw57]

Looking forwards to get pmw57's newest script bundle, then, which I shall consider to be the next default version then.

Oh sorry, didn't know you were waiting for me.

Here is the updated OSE-populator.js
http://www.box.net/shared/7xt8snz27f

I have ordered the added ships in alphabetical order, which makes it easier to tell which ones are where.

Apart from that, only touchups to the spacing have occurred.

• space between function name and parenthesis when declaring functions
• opening brace on the same line as the function declaration
• end closing function brace with a semicolon
• indenting with 4 spaces

There are a wide range of code conventions that can be used, due to different languages that people come from. Someone has even compared the differences from 8 different sets of guidelines.
http://www.martinrinehart.com/articles/ ... tions.html

As far as standards go, you can't go wrong with those from Douglas Crockford. They're well-reasoned and are aimed at making the intentions of the code as clear as possible to the next person reading it.

As we have no set code conventions, standarding on a well-known set of them helps to avoid arguments.
That we can use jslint.com from the same author to ensure that common mistakes are prevented, only helps to ease the burdon.

http://javascript.crockford.com/code.html
http://www.jslint.com/lint.html

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WOW...

I just ran into two fugitive Constitutions, one was the Super variant. I only had two Cascade missiles left...and almost no fuel for injectors.

Approaching the Super Constitution, I noticed that I had paid for the most expensive dud - the missile went away from radar without ECM or the ship firing it's turrets?!?

I turned around and fired the second one...nice shiny sphere expanding, then beginning to fade and still one of those bastards there. Tried my laser on it and it turned, hitting the fading sphere and thus causing a new one to arise.

Gave me 120K bounty for the first and 60K for the second

Is the bounty really meant to be that high? I somtimes see very tough ships with 5K and 10+K but this was far beyond!

May I suggest to consider writing some mini mission for such ships? Maybe the player hears some rumours about them, does get a snoopers report about a ship stolen by it's crew or traders fleeing and broadcasting warnings? The target ships broadcasting threats and the player, if he is successful, receiving thanks or some free beer when he's docked? Maybe even some exclusive interview by one of those reporter beauties?

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[matthewfarmery]

sounds pretty high for bounties, unless you were in one of the later galaxies? as they should get progressively tougher and worth more money, still not sure if they should be worth that much though?

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sounds pretty high for bounties, unless you were in one of the later galaxies? as they should get progressively tougher and worth more money, still not sure if they should be worth that much though?

Yes, even 18K and 6K would have been pretty much. I was in G4 but there's no such thing than tougher galaxies with higher bounties (except that one thargoid oxp does exclude galaxy 1 in order to provide a safe ground for newbies).

That's why I asked wether this bounty was intentional - maybe it's just a 0 too much in their setup?

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[matthewfarmery]

Then the bounties should be capped, and probably made lower regardless of the galaxy you are in? otherwise you end up getting very rich very quick and not bothered playing the game anymore as you have too much money

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Then the bounties should be capped, and probably made lower regardless of the galaxy you are in? otherwise you end up getting very rich very quick and not bothered playing the game anymore as you have too much money

Well, the 5 and 10K ones simply give the money for a Cascade missile which often is the best choice for such targets - but these two I reported, I've never seen something like that before.

Getting rich is usually the traders way, a bounty hunter typically does not have that much money. However, it's not the goal for me to get rich, as I've got the ship I want to have and all I do is playing for fun. With far over 13K kills it's also nothing from the rank to be gained, but I still have not played all mission oxps

I think that any bounty above 10K could well do for a generated mission target and thus such things should happen rarely.

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[Lestradae]

@Screet:

The bounties are indeed supposed to be that high - you got the two ultra-hardest, meanest hardpirates there are in OSE - and the way you got down the two beasts is the only one possible: Use as many photon torpedoes as possible (at a pricetag of 20000 Cr each, have to deduct that from the brutto bounty) and somehow lure these monsters into the resulting explosion. Usually they escape ... they have injectors, can accelerate and turn very fast for such big ships and their max speed is around 0.8LS

There are no bigger pirates in OSE, nor will there be. So congratulations, Commander, for catching two of the most wanted criminals in the whole Ooniverse! But then, you're Elite twice over, t'was to be expected!

Doing a random-hits style mission before or a snoopers report after you take down one of these giga-pirates would be a nice twist. I am just too used up doing OSE atm to do it. If someone constructs something like that, I put it in for sure, though

One thing is still unbalanced, though. Those very few ships with bounties of 10k+ Cr are well worth that much - there are random hits missions that go up to 8k Cr, and they are not after ships like that after all. But, as the ships expansion is not done yet, the chance to meet such super adversaries is about 20 times higher than it will be in finished OE. So that will change. Also the statistical chance that you meet two of this scale in the same encounter will go down by a factor of 100 or so. Keep in mind that this is still a beta WiP!

Edit: Afterthought, also the idea of the OSE hardpirate bounties was that players could do bountyhunting for a living, as an alternative to trading ... but with obviously deadly+ dangers involved.

@pmw57:

Thanks for the script. I will put it in immediately!

Cheers everyone

L

[matthewfarmery]

the new script has for the time being (but don't quote me on this) has made Oolite more stable, no crashes yet, hopefully the updated script will allow me to play for longer, will report back if the situation changes, so thanks for that pmw57

[Lestradae]

To all fans of the OSE project, I have a sort of announcement to make.

As diverse people have remarked, this project has far exceeded its original frame. It was about a common formula for pricing and availability of player ships first, then went on to include the ships (oxps) themselves and became a meta-oxp in the latest incarnation of Realistic Shipyards. When upgrading the whole idea to OSE, the idea became expanding all ships, player and NPC alike, into whole classes of ships.

All these additions, expansions and enhancements needed some non-shiprelated aspects of the game tweaked so that the result would have some balance in and of itself and no part would become uber in relation to other parts of OSE. So it became nescessary to raise missile speeds so that the new ships could still be reached by them, implement player stations so as to be able to pay the enormous maintenance fees multi-million-credit ships need etc. etc.

When already at it, I thought, why not treat the whole F3 and F3-F3 screen as the expanded shipyard and include all equipment not exclusively available via mission oxp?

Now I noted that I had created some things people might want to have without having to take the whole OSE package. Player Stations, Combat Computers, and the original option of algorithm-priced and available player ships to name a few. But I always had a bad gut-feeling about taking it apart into separate oxps again. Turns out I found out my motivation after being 90% though with OSE.

After thinking about all this a lot, I noticed that I have been doing three actually quite distinct things, and I have to re-unify them if this project should come to an end somewhere and before 2011:

1) I produced two oxps of my own and a merger of four different ones: Cue Player Stations, Combat Computers, and Realistic Shipyards VX.0.

2) I put all sorts of little tweaks into the game of stuff I liked. I don't dare bring any examples of that here though, it might cause nervous twitching in some people (you know who you are) and I don't want that ...

3) Basically, I created the stump of an Aaaaaaall-of-it.oxp. An oxp that contains everything ever made for Oolite.

While observing a thread in the Discussion forum about game styles, I noted that about 4-5 distinct gaming styles seem to exist amongst players. One of them seems predestined for OSE in all three regards listed above, I cite myself:

4) The "Aaaaaall-of-it"-crowd
Guess where I'm counting myself into Asides from purely tongue-in-cheek oxps like KillIt or the Christmas Reindeers sled on the space lanes, this sort of players considers the Ooniverse to be all that which oxp'ers have included, and see the core game as the canvas onto which the actual picture is painted. In other words: If it's potentially in there, I want it.

Playing like that means that the Ooniverse is perceived as a living, growing entity, that might one day have moved far away from the original Elite - or more like, have transcended that one's boundaries that might have had more to do with getting then's universe into a 64kb drive than with quality decisions. Obviously, that style of play probably runs danger of putting quantity over quality.

The relevant sentence is: "... this sort of players considers the Ooniverse to be all that which oxp'ers have included". I sure feel that way. I would do what I do even if I was the only player enjoying the game like that. Turns out a whole lot of people wants the same as I do.

So I made my decision. I will throw the already transcended "Shipyards" out of "Oolite Shipyards Extension". It will become "Oolite Extended" instead, be developed for Oolite V1.74 and contain ... aaaaaall of it.

To debunk a few criticisms to such an approach, let me make a few things clear:

1) I am not altering anything in the further oxps I am going to add into this meta-oxp bundle, not one semicolon. They will be merged also to have all of it in one go. The only things I will change are things needed so that they can all work together in one bundle (and have no double entries in any plist etc.). If I find bugs or problems in any oxps merged, I will alert the authors about that first. Actually, I already started doing that.

2) Any plans about what was to be included into OSE will be included into OE, too. The expanded ship classes and so on are still going to be done as planned.

3) When "Oolite Extended V1.0" comes out, it will be in a region of 900+MB filesize. Therefore, I will, additionally to the download, provide an upgrade patch three or four times a year, and also update the V1.XX of the main download accordingly. That way, realistically players will have a better chance to play the latest version of the integrated oxps than if they try to stay up-to-date with around 250 singular oxps on their own.

4) I will publish the original functionality of RS - the pricing and TL-ing - as a standalone oxp: Realistic Shipyards V4.0. It will not contain ships or whatever, but only change price and TL of player ships, and will be dependent on the original standalone oxps. The shipyard-overrides.plist makes this possible. Same with Player Stations and Combat Computers: I will also make them available as singular oxps.

5) Also included will be any and all "flavour" material that people want to make available for such an "extended" Oolite game. ClymAngus & Phantor's maps, e-books and whatnot. Obviously I will ask these people if they want their non-oxp stuff included in the future "Oolite Extended" download first ...

If there should be suggestions, ideas, criticisms or advice anyone wants to give to me, feel free to do so here or via PM. Please remember that we are all different - there's really no reason to flame or make a fuss because of it. Please note also that I will say "on the tin" wherever this will be possible to download that it is only for one of many possible gaming styles, and I am not taking any decisions away from the players - this project is for the "Aaaaaall-of-it" crowd. (The original posting about the gaming styles is to be found below)

Have fun, everyone, with your distinctive ways of playing Oolite

L

PS: The four gaming styles:

1) The Minimalist
That way of playing relies heavily and exclusively on the original Elite. Modifications that go beyond that one's foundational ideas are shunned (like player turrets, big player ships, landing on planets etc.) Modifications that are wanted are mostly based on enhancing the quality of principles already in existance in the original Elite, i.e. the evil thargoids are lying in waiting, so there might be a cataclysmic war scenario about that, or the lawless anarchies might be expanded upon oxp-wise etc.

This sort of game is exclusively about deepening the meanings of things that happen in the game, and about enhancing their quality, to the probable exclusion of quantity and new ideas.

2) The Finetuners
These players/oxp'ers are very picky about what to allow into their game or not. They are not that concerned if something is Elite 'canon' or not, but have very clear ideas about which things beyond the principles of original Elite might 'fit' - or not (for them).

That venue of play is about also expanding the "quantities" of the game, like adding postal services, witchpoint trading stations, taxi services, missionaries and the like. These things might not have been in original Elite, but they fit for these players/oxp'ers.

3) The "Ooniverse-only" players
The sort of game favoured here is not nescessarily restricted to the Elite canon at all. Things like landing on planets, multiple-turreted player ships and buying stations as a player might feature here. This 'sort' of players likes to have as much as possible in their game, but draws the line at stuff that definitely does not stem from the Ooniverse - a Constitution or A-Wing flying by gets no applause from them ...

4) The "Aaaaaall-of-it"-crowd
Guess where I'm counting myself into Asides from purely tongue-in-cheek oxps like KillIt or the Christmas Reindeers sled on the space lanes, this sort of players considers the Ooniverse to be all that which oxp'ers have included, and see the core game as the canvas onto which the actual picture is painted. In other words: If it's potentially in there, I want it.

Playing like that means that the Ooniverse is perceived as a living, growing entity, that might one day have moved far away from the original Elite - or more like, have transcended that one's boundaries that might have had more to do with getting then's universe into a 64kb drive than with quality decisions. Obviously, that style of play probably runs danger of putting quantity over quality.

[PhantorGorth]

So you are going to create what I can best describe as 4 different Oolite Distributions similar in principle to the different Linux Distributions. Doesn't stop anyone from building it yourself (Slackware Oolite ) but that is up to the users.

I can see its merits and this may be the way to go for many users but I imagine your 4 distributions would put a very large Lestradae footprint on Oolite as "build it yourself option" usually becomes relegated to a handful of hardcore users. And if you decide not to include someone's OXP for some nefarious reason (not saying you would) then their work could end up being ignored by many. I can see this may put too much power in one person's hands that this may unset quite a few people.

Some questions that spring to mind are:

Most linux distributions have package management to tailor the distribution. Are you going to provide something similar?

What about OXP developers that don't want you to include their work in your distributions?

[Lestradae]

Hi PhantorGorth,

there are quite some misunderstandings in your assumptions!

So you are going to create what I can best describe as 4 different Oolite Distributions similar in principle to the different Linux Distributions. Doesn't stop anyone from building it yourself (Slackware Oolite Razz) but that is up to the users.

Nope, not the case! Oolite Extended is going to be one very big oxp that will, as a bundle, contain all other oxps.

There will be no "alternate Oolite build" or the like. You install the game with the installer, then you insert the very big oxp into the AddOns folder as usual. What is unusual is you have everything oxp in at once, and the different oxps have been checked to play fair with each other.

Also, as I said above, this bundle will only be interesting for one player attitude, namely the one I termed "Aaaall-of-it". There will not be three other bundles or builds or whatever. For the other three ways of enjoying Oolite, this is simply not going to be of interest.

And that the other three ways of playing don't get discriminated, I will exclude the functions unique to OE which I can reasonably take out as three single oxps too, so that players always have the choice if they want to pick and mix the original singular oxps or if they want it all in one giant package.

No choice is taken away at all, not even the temptation to. I will make it very clear that anyone who says "I don't want this and that" simply shouldn't download and install it, period. I assume most people will want to do the pick and mix approach anyways.

I imagine your 4 distributions would put a very large Lestradae footprint on Oolite as "build it yourself option" usually becomes relegated to a handful of hardcore users.

If there is a very large Lestradae footprint on Oolite, it's because I have invested a lot of hard work into it in the last two years. But it is everyone's choice how much they want to have to do with me and my work. No one is forced to do anything, I wouldn't want to push anyone anyways and also couldn't if I wanted. So

And if you decide not to include someone's OXP for some nefarious reason (not saying you would) then their work could end up being ignored by many.

Answer to that is simple: I won't do that, ever. You can bet on that. If someone does an obviously purely tongue-in-cheek oxp like the KillIt one or a total conversion that turns Oolite into the Wookie Empire I won't include it. If it is recognisable as Oolite for anyone, I will.

I can see this may put too much power in one person's hands that this may unset quite a few people.

This does not put any power into my hands at all. If there is some influence, I am not the only one here with that. And as mentioned, I don't feel guilty if I gain some influence in something by investing a lot into it.

I think the misunderstanding here is I would plan to do some sort of alternate Oolite setup. I won't. No four distributions, no alternate builds. Only a big oxp-bundle with some tweaks and add-ons possible due to the synergies.

Most linux distributions have package management to tailor the distribution. Are you going to provide something similar?

Again: This is simply going to be a really, really big oxp that contains all oxps in a bundle, checked for compatibility and making myself the work to regularly update the whole thing.

What about OXP developers that don't want you to include their work in your distributions?

I'm sorry, but this is creative commons license. The condition to use the CC is that other people can use your stuff etc. What if Braben didn't like Giles' work? What if Giles didn't like Ahruman's work? What if Ahruman dislikes some oxps? So, what if some oxp authors dislike this meta-oxp?

Without CC, there would be no Oolite and no oxps in it. I am not doing something evil here I am building on what is there, as did and do all the other people I happened to mention. With the probable exemption of Braben.

Btw, if any oxp author changes their oxps in any way, I'll follow that change. So I won't be the one who decides what exactly is in Oolite Extended - the original oxps' authors will. Perhaps this is an important point. And if I find bugs or problems, I will notify the authors first - via PM. If they change something, I follow suit. Etc.

But it's good that you mention your concerns. That way, I can clear this up before some strange ideas come my way. "Oolite Extended" is simply going to be a gigantic oxp for those people who want all in - uniting all options of all oxps plus everything done for (now its own predecessor) OSE.

Hope to have de-muddled the waters here a bit and if there are any further questions/things to debate, by all means feel free to do so, I'm open to it.

Cheers

L

[Thargoid]

Now I come to think about it, there's actually another class of player (into which I would place myself). I used to like RS in its incarnation as being a meta-ship OXP. As in I didn't have to bother gathering/installing a couple of dozen OXPs, it gave a nice mix of ships into the game (ok with a few I wouldn't have chosen, but they can either be lived with or snipped out) and the bonus of several bugs being ironed out. Also there were several OXPs in there which are now quite difficult to locate anyway in working format.

Here I find myself disappointed that I'm going to be left behind. The further OSE (and now OE) goes the less it appeals to me, if for no other reason than it's getting too large to use on my system (900MB will 90% fill the remains of my 2GB USB key I run Oolite off, so it won't happen). Also whilst some people may like the Oobay and player-buyable stations and all the "unusual" player ships and things like that, I can't say personally that I do. I just want a nice mix of ships to look at, but relatively few are of interest to actually fly.

So I might just take OSE as it is now (or soon to be) and snip it back to being "RS+". But it's a shame as what it used to be is what I actually wanted, but it's gone a bit too M$ for me of late.

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Also whilst some people may like the Oobay stations and all the "unusual" player ships and things like that, I can't say personally that I do. I just want a nice mix of ships to look at, but relatively few are of interest to actually fly.

Removing oobay is as simple as commenting out a single line in the populator script

I myself also kept the standard HUD/font...

I guess it's best if we find the most common modifications which could arise and provide easy steps upon how to customize this project to the personal desires.

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