understanding shipdata.plist

[Lestradae]

...but even if it would be more costly than a galactic hyperdrive, it probably would destroy most of the fun and break missions where a player has to travel to a distant planet with constant attacks on the way there.

Exactly my point.

While I am known to be fond of spectacular extensions of all sorts of things including equipment, I think any change should be thought through to actually enhance, i.e. expand the interesting possibilities of the game, not narrow them down.

Also, trading contracts would no longer be something where you have to fly very far, you just jump once and that's it, 100.000 Cr+.



L

[punkbohemian]

I'm starting my ship revamp and I want to get into the nitty gritty of some stats before I start tweaking too much.

1) Speed. Does this affect WFI? In other words, is WFI a set speed or is it an addition/multiplier of one's max speed? If it is a set speed, is there a way to edit this?

2) Thrust. How much does it really matter in practice? I mean, I see the purpose of it, but I've yet to have a situation where I thought, "Man, if only I had more thrust".

3) Shields/Energy. Correct me if I'm wrong. The only thing for which energy matters is your energy banks, which determine how many laser blasts you can take before getting killed.

If the shields are shot through, the shots directly hit your energy banks. More banks = longer survival, true, but it's worth nothing as a single hit which goes through the shields can damage your equipment. Thus you probably survive in a state where you want to reload anyway.

So, if you lose your shields, your gear gets (permanently?) damaged?

With missile hits it's different, as they do a massive amount of energy damage when coming through the shields. More energy = better survival chance against the first hit.

But the second hit will probably kill you regardless?

4) Recharge. Does it affect your shields, energy banks, or both? And energy_recharge_rate, I presume, is units/second?

5) Cargo. I'm guessing the max tonnage for a trade run is 750. Does anyone know the equation (or at least an approximate average) for trade runs? Is it right in the middle (375)? I don't want to assume this though, as from just looking at the postings for cargo runs, it seems like it would be a bit lower (like somewhere around 250-350).

Thanks.

[Nemoricus]

1) I think it's a multiplier of 3x.

2) The ration between thrust and top speed gives the length of time it takes to reach that speed. It also gives the time it takes to slow down from Torus drive speed. However, in the main I agree with you.

3) Energy banks are used for your lasers, ECM, and final layer of health. Once the shields go down, they are the only thing protecting your ship from final destruction. However, they won't prevent equipment from being damaged or cargo from being destroyed.

4) I believe it's the energy banks only. And I'd assume that it's units/second.

5) I'm not sure about this one.

[punkbohemian]

Energy banks are used for your lasers, ECM, and final layer of health.

How are they used for lasers and ECM? I'm guessing with the latter, they're used for rate of success? But I couldn't even guess what they do with lasers. Damage, maybe?

Also, I don't see a stats for shields anywhere. I get the impression that whether you're in a shuttle or boa class cruiser, your have the same level of shields. This seems absurd, though.

[Screet]

Energy banks are used for your lasers, ECM, and final layer of health.

How are they used for lasers and ECM? I'm guessing with the latter, they're used for rate of success? But I couldn't even guess what they do with lasers. Damage, maybe?

Both wrong. Lasers require energy to work, so does ECM. Nothing with success or damage rate. Just like plugging a lamp into your houses power network, they always require the same amount when used, and that's what the energy banks provide for.

Concerning your shields observation, it's true.

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[Nemoricus]

Also, I don't see a stats for shields anywhere. I get the impression that whether you're in a shuttle or boa class cruiser, your have the same level of shields. This seems absurd, though.

Exactly. And I happen to agree with you. It's a bit silly. However, this is something that the devs will have to work in.

[LittleBear]

For NPC ships the max_energy_level represents shield strength. So an NPC ship with 100 units takes twice as much damage before dying as a ship with 50. However, for a player ship max_energy_level only effects the number of energy banks you have. For players only installing a shield booster or military shield booter improves your shield strength. Yep its a bit strange, but it seems to be hard coded that all player ships have the same default shield level.

[DaddyHoggy]

I never knew this - how strange!

When they describe vipers as "tough little ships" I always presumed it was because they could take more hits/punishment and therefore that they had better shields than a similar sized ship.

So in effect a big Boa or Annie has the same shields as a Cobby3 (or even a Worm!!!) and potentially can only survive longer because they have more energy banks - but will get damaged at the same rate because once your shields are gone you're taking damage.

Weird, and somehow feels wrong...

[Screet]

So in effect a big Boa or Annie has the same shields as a Cobby3 (or even a Worm!!!) and potentially can only survive longer because they have more energy banks - but will get damaged at the same rate because once your shields are gone you're taking damage.

Weird, and somehow feels wrong...

My idea to solve this would be to have ships with different shield-recharge rates, where the recharge of the shield would cause energy drain...that way ships could exist with low energy recharge but higher shield recharge...and they would drain their banks to maintain the shields, thus giving energy banks a little bit more use.

Screet

[DaddyHoggy]

So in effect a big Boa or Annie has the same shields as a Cobby3 (or even a Worm!!!) and potentially can only survive longer because they have more energy banks - but will get damaged at the same rate because once your shields are gone you're taking damage.

Weird, and somehow feels wrong...

My idea to solve this would be to have ships with different shield-recharge rates, where the recharge of the shield would cause energy drain...that way ships could exist with low energy recharge but higher shield recharge...and they would drain their banks to maintain the shields, thus giving energy banks a little bit more use.

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That's neat! So as your shields take a pounding they stay up but only at the cost of your energy banks which drain quickly to recharge your shields - so your equipment takes longer to damage but once through your sheilds you may die on the first hit due to having low energy.

Q: In the C64 version of Elite - your shields stopped charging once your energy banks got to the last bank - once above 1 bank - energy recharged v. slowly but shields charged up at normal rate. Is this still true? Otherwise you might blow up trying to keep your shields up!

[Screet]

Q: In the C64 version of Elite - your shields stopped charging once your energy banks got to the last bank - once above 1 bank - energy recharged v. slowly but shields charged up at normal rate. Is this still true? Otherwise you might blow up trying to keep your shields up!

I've had the impression that energy recharge slows down when shields need energy. Furthermore, if both shields are damaged, it seems to take longer to recharge them.

However, I always missed that existing energy could be spent on shield recharge, and yes, it both would be possible to enable this only for as long as a certain minimum of energy is existing and it also would cause ships to blow up much faster once the shields are gone. I think that should balance it a little.

A negative side effect would be that player probably could not enable their cloak in that case, as the cloak requires a high energy amount to allow enabling them...and if the energy level would be allowed to drop below the MASC required minimum of energy, ships protected that way could suffer instant missile-death

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[punkbohemian]

Both wrong. Lasers require energy to work, so does ECM.

Really? The only thing that's ever kept me from firing my lasers is laser temp. I never see a reduction of energy when firing.

Yep its a bit strange, but it seems to be hard coded that all player ships have the same default shield level.

To be honest, I'm finding there to be a lot strange about the design of this game.

[Cmdr James]

You have to remember the game was "designed" years ago, as elite, and there was only the cobra 3 available to the player.

So some things like variable shield levels were never initially designed in, well with the exception of shield boosters, but there was never a generic shield power concept. It might get added in the future, but you need to consider the heritage to understand the status quo.

[punkbohemian]

It might get added in the future, but you need to consider the heritage to understand the status quo.

I've never played the original Elite, but I can't help disagreeing. Via the boards, wiki, etc., I've learned enough about the original game to know that Oolite has already strayed quite far from its roots. I mean, if one is going to dev multiple ships in a remake of a game that only had one, then one can't legitimize any designs by saying it was like this in the original. A dev is already breaking from tradition by having multiple ships to begin with. I wouldn't nitpick about this, but I think it's particularly important to distinguish between tradition, and just poor design.

On the bright side, I was starting to feel like a blasphemer by what I had in mind with the oxp on which I'm currently working (total ship revamp). However, if the original only ever had one ship anyway, I don't feel bad anymore.

[Screet]

Both wrong. Lasers require energy to work, so does ECM.

Really? The only thing that's ever kept me from firing my lasers is laser temp. I never see a reduction of energy when firing.

If you fly a ship with low recharge rate, you will see how nasty the ECM is...and the lasers power drain usually becomes visible when you try to fire while cloaked

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