@Ahruman & A_C: Turret setup actions - 1.72 bug 2.0

[Lestradae]

Is there a problem with setup actions for turrets in 1.72?

Because, if I use this setup action actively, suddenly graphics glitches with ships appear, especially with those buyable in the shipyards.

Not entirely sure if that is the culprit, but probable, as the ships that seem to be hit by this are for example the two Urutus, the Behemoth model (used for the Juggernaut too) and the Falcon.

The glitches started after I put in initialisation of turrets some days ago.



L

[JensAyton]

Is there a problem with setup actions for turrets in 1.72?

I don’t know, is there? :-) (If so, please provide a test case.)

[Lestradae]

Is there a problem with setup actions for turrets in 1.72?

I don’t know, is there? (If so, please provide a test case.)

Will do

[Lestradae]

Hi Ahruman,

tested the matter, and cobbled a little Test-OXP together for you from the Urutu ship(s).

You just have to put in only one of those two OXPs which give you a buyable Urutu MkIV in the shipyard.

The ONLY difference between the two OXP`s is, that one uses ...

Code: Select all

<key>setup_actions</key>
<array>
   <string>initialiseTurret</string>
</array>

... for its two turrets and the other not. It says which is which in the OXP`s names.

You will see that the oxp which lets the player Urutu MkIV initialise its turrets, has a graphics glitch immediately visible in the shipyard, two missile-like things rotate below the ship.

The completely identical other oxp, that does NOT initialise its turret, has those two things on the ship`s hull where they belong!

Have the same problem with all player Falcons, the player Black Monk Gunship and everything that has a player turret.

OK, the Test_OXP Urutu MkIV WITH setup actions + resulting graphics glitch can be downloaded from here:

http://www.box.net/shared/static/hq8urpntap.zip

... and the Test_OXP Urutu MkIV WITHOUT setup actions + resulting NO graphics glitch can be downloaded from there:

http://www.box.net/shared/static/b2hftonmll.zip

Convince yourself, hope this can be resolved.



L

[Lestradae]

PS: Additional information.

Tried a few things with the initialised-turret player ships. Tested with Falcon which already has external views. The player turrets would fire (albeit very rarely and stop after a few shots?)

But, also in the external views, and in the shipyard F3-F3 screen, the turrets subentities will not turn with the rest of the ship. They stay in the same spacial orientation as before, while the rest of the ship moves.

[another_commander]

I don't see what you are seeing with the Falcon. The Falcon turrets work just fine here. Also note that the turrets have a certain arc of fire and you need to help them sometimes by turning the ship in such a way so that they can face their target more easily. If a target moves out of their arc, they stop.

I am seeing the bug with the Urutu, though. And I am seeing it also with 1.71.2 for what's worth. Not sure why this happens, but from the very brief testing I did, I believe this to be an OXP bug, as every other ship with turrets (Falcon, Griff Boa, etc.) does not have a similar problem and they all use initialiseTurret.

Your test case brought up another issue with the shipyards in 1.72. Equipment with techlevel 99 like the Naval Energy Unit, if it appears as extra equipment, will raise the price of a ship to extreme heights. This has been corrected for the next bugfix release.

[Cmdr Wyvern]

The Urutu has dummy missile models (aram.dat) set up as subents. They don't really do anything, they're just there for show. Those are what you see rotating. As to why they're rotating, that's beyond me.

The Uturu as a player ship is sorta meh, not a fun thing to fly. It's definitely fun as a pirate NPC to fight, though; using the laser to icepick the subents off before you kill him.

[JensAyton]

The Urutu has dummy missile models (aram.dat) set up as subents. They don't really do anything, they're just there for show. Those are what you see rotating. As to why they're rotating, that's beyond me.

Sounds like a matrix issue left over from 1.71.

[Lestradae]

@Ahruman & A_C,

perhaps it has to do with the OS (mine is Vista).

Tried again, got the same result.

To be absolutely sure, I downloaded the Kaks-repaired Kestrel-Falcon oxp. I gave the Falcons a chance of 1.0 to appear in shipyards and didn`t change anything else. I took out all other OXPs and looked what happened.

Fair enough, the Falcon & Falcon-S appeared in the Lave shipyard. The turrets looked fine, not out of place. Exit game.

I looked. The NPC version has the turret initialise, the player version hasn`t. So I initialised the player`s turret, too.

Voila. Same result: The turrets stayed where they were in the shipyard screen, while the ship rotated. Graphics broken.

Don`t understand why you don`t get this in your test, A_C. I have ONLY the Falcon oxp in and the (original) Tiger to test with my savegame (fly a Tiger atm).

Will continue testing, but please look into that. The only error I could have made would be if player turrets wouldn`t need the command to initialise - can`t imagine that, how would the game know it is actually supposed to treat the respective subentity as a turret or not?

Puzzled

L

Edit: That`s weird. Attempted to give only the subentity named "turret" for the Falcon the initialise turret command, not the "gun" subentity. Suddenly the graphics glitch is gone.

Is there something else that determines how the game deals with this? Do the turrets have to have roles that define them as turrets, too, or somesuch??? Can a player ship have one turret max?? Even more puzzled now.

[Lestradae]

Tried X times in X different ways.

The effect is definitely there, exactly the same OXP breaks the graphics when a player ship`s turret is initialised and doesn`t without that.

I found the one exception with Kak`s Kestrel/Falcon, no idea why that works with the "turret" and not with the "gun".

It`s also clearly visible with the missilelike graphics bug in the Urutu-TestOxp I posted here - with initialisation, glitch, with no initialisation, no glitch. No idea how it can be not there at another one`s system.

Encountered the "high TL makes unimaginable prices" bug, too. Happy to hear that one will be squashed for the next release.



L

[Cmdr Wyvern]

I'm thinking that A_C could be right about there being bugs in the OXPs.

When I made the turreted Dragons, I used initialize_turret, not on the ships, but on the turrets. That's how it's done with the Behemoth's ballturrets.

Code: Select all

	<key>dragonturret-m-npc</key>
	<dict>
		<key>ai_type</key>
		<string>nullAI.plist</string>
		<key>laser_color</key>
		<string>cyanColor</string>
		<key>model</key>
		<string>dragonturret-m.dat</string>
		<key>smooth</key>
		<true/>
		<key>name</key>
		<string>Dragon Turret</string>
		<key>roles</key>
		<string>ballturret dragonturret</string>
		<key>setup_actions</key>
		<array>
			<string>initialiseTurret</string>
		</array>
		<key>max_flight_pitch</key>
		<real>1</real>
		<key>max_flight_yaw</key>
		<real>1</real>
		<key>max_flight_roll</key>
		<real>1</real>
		<key>thrust</key>
		<real>1</real>
		<key>weapon_energy</key>
		<real>20</real>
		<key>energy_recharge_rate</key>
		<real>2</real>
		<key>max_energy</key>
		<real>64</real>
	</dict>
	<key>dragonturret-m</key>
	<dict>
		<key>like_ship</key>
		<string>dragonturret-m-npc</string>
		<key>frangible</key>
		<false/>
	</dict>

And to compare, the Behemoth's turret.

Code: Select all

	<key>ballturret</key>
	<dict>
		<key>ai_type</key>
		<string>nullAI.plist</string>
		<key>laser_color</key>
		<string>magentaColor</string>
		<key>model</key>
		<string>ballturret.dat</string>
		<key>name</key>
		<string>Ball Turret</string>
		<key>roles</key>
		<string>ballturret</string>
		<key>setup_actions</key>
		<array>
			<string>initialiseTurret</string>
		</array>
		<key>thrust</key>
		<real>1</real>
		<key>weapon_energy</key>
		<real>25</real>
	</dict>

[Lestradae]

Yeah, sure, used initialise turret onto the turrets, too.

The graphically impaired Falcon turrets I am testing, for example, atm look like this:

Code: Select all

<key>bweed-falcon-gun</key>
        <dict>
                <key>ai_type</key>
                <string>nullAI.plist</string>
                <key>energy_recharge_rate</key>
                <real>1.5</real>
                <key>max_energy</key>
                <real>60</real>
                <key>model</key>
                <string>bweed-falcon-gun.dat</string>
                <key>name</key>
                <string>bweed-falcon-gun</string>
                <key>roles</key>
                <string>bweed-falcon-gun</string>
                <key>thrust</key>
                <real>1</real>
                <key>weapon_energy</key>
                <real>6</real>
                <key>laser_color</key>
                <string>redColor</string>
                <key>setup_actions</key>
                <array>
                        <string>initialiseTurret</string>
                </array>
                <key>smooth</key>
                <true/>
        </dict>

... and this:

Code: Select all

<key>bweed-falcon-turret</key>
        <dict>
                <key>energy_recharge_rate</key>
                <real>1.5</real>
                <key>max_energy</key>
                <real>60</real>
                <key>ai_type</key>
                <string>nullAI.plist</string>
                <key>model</key>
                <string>bweed-falcon-turret.dat</string>
                <key>name</key>
                <string>bweed-falcon-turret</string>
                <key>roles</key>
                <string>bweed-falcon-turret</string>
                <key>thrust</key>
                <real>1</real>
                <key>weapon_energy</key>
                <real>6</real>
                <key>laser_color</key>
                <string>redColor</string>
                <key>setup_actions</key>
                <array>
                        <string>initialiseTurret</string>
                </array>
                <key>smooth</key>
                <true/>
        </dict>

... lastly, number 3:

Code: Select all

<key>bweed-falcon-player_turret</key>
        <dict>
                <key>energy_recharge_rate</key>
                <real>1.5</real>
                <key>max_energy</key>
                <real>60</real>
                <key>ai_type</key>
                <string>nullAI.plist</string>
                <key>model</key>
                <string>bweed-falcon-turret.dat</string>
                <key>name</key>
                <string>bweed-falcon-turret</string>
                <key>roles</key>
                <string>bweed-falcon-turret</string>
                <key>thrust</key>
                <real>1</real>
                <key>weapon_energy</key>
                <real>6</real>
                <key>laser_color</key>
                <string>redColor</string>
                <key>setup_actions</key>
                <array>
                        <string>initialiseTurret</string>
                </array>
                <key>smooth</key>
                <true/>
        </dict>

I can`t find any error. Can you?



L

[Cmdr Wyvern]

Yeah, sure, used initialise turret onto the turrets, too.

The graphically impaired Falcon turrets I am testing, for example, atm look like this:

Code: Select all

<key>bweed-falcon-gun</key>
        <dict>
                <key>ai_type</key>
                <string>nullAI.plist</string>
                <key>energy_recharge_rate</key>
                <real>1.5</real>
                <key>max_energy</key>
                <real>60</real>
                <key>model</key>
                <string>bweed-falcon-gun.dat</string>
                <key>name</key>
                <string>bweed-falcon-gun</string>
                <key>roles</key>
                <string>bweed-falcon-gun</string>
                <key>thrust</key>
                <real>1</real>
                <key>weapon_energy</key>
                <real>6</real>
                <key>laser_color</key>
                <string>redColor</string>
                <key>setup_actions</key>
                <array>
                        <string>initialiseTurret</string>
                </array>
                <key>smooth</key>
                <true/>
        </dict>

... and this:

Code: Select all

<key>bweed-falcon-turret</key>
        <dict>
                <key>energy_recharge_rate</key>
                <real>1.5</real>
                <key>max_energy</key>
                <real>60</real>
                <key>ai_type</key>
                <string>nullAI.plist</string>
                <key>model</key>
                <string>bweed-falcon-turret.dat</string>
                <key>name</key>
                <string>bweed-falcon-turret</string>
                <key>roles</key>
                <string>bweed-falcon-turret</string>
                <key>thrust</key>
                <real>1</real>
                <key>weapon_energy</key>
                <real>6</real>
                <key>laser_color</key>
                <string>redColor</string>
                <key>setup_actions</key>
                <array>
                        <string>initialiseTurret</string>
                </array>
                <key>smooth</key>
                <true/>
        </dict>

... lastly, number 3:

Code: Select all

<key>bweed-falcon-player_turret</key>
        <dict>
                <key>energy_recharge_rate</key>
                <real>1.5</real>
                <key>max_energy</key>
                <real>60</real>
                <key>ai_type</key>
                <string>nullAI.plist</string>
                <key>model</key>
                <string>bweed-falcon-turret.dat</string>
                <key>name</key>
                <string>bweed-falcon-turret</string>
                <key>roles</key>
                <string>bweed-falcon-turret</string>
                <key>thrust</key>
                <real>1</real>
                <key>weapon_energy</key>
                <real>6</real>
                <key>laser_color</key>
                <string>redColor</string>
                <key>setup_actions</key>
                <array>
                        <string>initialiseTurret</string>
                </array>
                <key>smooth</key>
                <true/>
        </dict>

I can`t find any error. Can you?



L

Maybe, L.
Is bweed-falcon-gun a turret, or an extra fore laser mount like on renegades, Monk gunships and Rattlers? If it's the latter, then it doesn't need setup_actions on it. Just the turrets need setup_actions to work.

BTW, extra fore lasers won't work on player ships, even with oolite 1.72. I know, I tried.

EDIT: BTW It helps to look at the shipdata.plists of existing OXPs with turreted ships, you learn a few things. Renegades, Behemoth, Black Monks, Griff Boa, and Dragon, to list a few are good examples to study.

[LittleBear]

They don't have ballturret amongst their roles. I haven't tested this or anything, but it is a difference bewteen Wyvern's working turrets and the non-working falcon turrets. Could try that and see if it makes a difference.

[Lestradae]

OK, perhaps we`re getting somewhere here.

In the documentation on the wiki it is basically said that any subentity will act as a turret if it is given the setup command "initialise turret". That`s it.

But it can`t be. For some unknown reason, if I initialise the turret termed "bweed-falcon-turret" it works on a player ship, no graphics glitch.

If I initialise as a turret the "bweed-falcon-gun" from the second posted example, the graphic for a player ship breaks and doesn`t move with the ship in shipyard.

Even if Cmdr Wyvern`s suspicion is correct and the falcon gun is a second or third front laser, shouldn`t treating it with initialise turret make the game treat it as a turret anyways?

BTW, also tried LittleBear`s suggestion and added the role "ballturret" to the "bweed-falcon-gun", but to no effect. Graphics glitch stays.

But maybe we are on to something here. How does the game actually differentiate between a turret and an additional mounted laser?

Now, that player ships can have turrets, too, and NPCs turrets or additional lasers, how exactly does the game determine which is which? What has to be inserted into the code of a subentity that it is treated as an additional laser or a turret instead?

Initialise turret setup action is not enough as we see. More is not documented on the wiki as far as I can see.

Can someone clear this up?



L