Weapon Laws OXZ

[Cholmondely]

• v1.6 is now available which, in addition to the above, makes a few tweaks to weapon availability.
  • Easier to find hardened missiles for sale (just one system in galaxy 1 was a bit harsh for an expendable item)
  • Slightly less restriction re beam lasers and targeting scanners

Can you just check that this update to the wiki page is accurate, please! (You need'nt bother counting the systems...).

Corporate States
... None of the below are buyable. Number of systems where purchase is possible is listed below (where this is less than 10).

Democracies
ECM (from TL3), Pulse lasers (from TL4), Shield boosters (from TL11)

Confederacies
Missiles (from TL2), Military Shield Enhancement (from TL14 - Xexedi only)

Communist States
Beam lasers (from TL5), Target System Memory Expansion (from TL9), Scanner Targeting Enhancement (from TL12 - there are 10 such systems only in Galaxy 1)

Dictatorships
ECM hardened missile (from TL10 - there are 9 of them), Multi-Targeting System (from TL6)

Multi-Governments
Military lasers (from TL11 - there are 6 of them), Integrated Targeting System (from TL12 - there are 3 of them)

Feudal States
Quirium cascade mine (from TL7)

Anarchies
Energy bomb (...if the oxp is installed, from TL8 - there are 6 of them)

[Redspear]

Can you just check that this update to the wiki page is accurate, please! (You need'nt bother counting the systems...).

I've edited the below quote so that it matches the requirements as of v1.6:

Corporate States
... None of the below are buyable. Number of systems where purchase is possible is listed below (where this is less than 10).

Democracies
ECM (from TL3), Pulse lasers (from TL4), Shield boosters (from TL11)

Confederacies
Missiles (from TL2), Military Shield Enhancement (from TL14 - Xexedi only)

Communist States
Beam lasers (from TL5), Target System Memory Expansion (from TL9), Scanner Targeting Enhancement (from TL12 - there are 10 such systems only in Galaxy 1)

Dictatorships
ECM hardened missile (from TL10 - there are 9 of them), Multi-Targeting System (from TL6), Target System Memory Expansion (from TL9)

Multi-Governments
Military lasers (from TL11 - there are 6 of them), Integrated Targeting System (from TL12 - there are 3 of them)

Feudal States
Quirium cascade mine (from TL7)

Anarchies
Energy bomb (...if the oxp is installed, from TL8 - there are 6 of them)

Hope that helps.

[Alnivel]

There is an error in the script in handling "oolite-barred-equipment" - it looks like you forgot to change the name of the variable from "equipment" to "eqKey" after copypasting fragment from oolite-conditions.js.

[Redspear]

There is an error in the script in handling "oolite-barred-equipment" - it looks like you forgot to change the name of the variable from "equipment" to "eqKey" after copypasting fragment from oolite-conditions.js.

Thanks Alnivel.

I'll look into it.

[Cholmondely]

With the introduction of PlanetFall2, more possibilities are introduced into Oolite.

How about this one?

The ability to buy "banned" weapons in a high tech politically safe system. This could be done at one of those peculiar planetary landing sites located at rubbish dumps, through a local black market.

Some equipment (lasers or what have you) would thus only be available on the planet surface (there needs to be a rationale for each piece of equipment as the orbital station is focused on dealing with space ships with gravity-free shipyards for working on them). Also some sort of appropriate dialogue - and appropriate pricing!



NB: I've not found the lasers on sale at Salvage Gangs.

[Redspear]

The ability to buy "banned" weapons

I prefer the term 'restricted' myslef

This could be done at one of those peculiar planetary landing sites located at rubbish dumps, through a local black market.

Story wise that's quite nice, unfiortunately it would override the purpose of this oxp.
Namely, that the player should travel the space-lane of progressively more dangerous systems in order to acquire progreesively more potent armaments.

This is in support of a common game design element: that reward should increase with risk.

[Cholmondely]

Story wise that's quite nice, unfortunately it would override the purpose of this oxp.
Namely, that the player should travel the space-lane of progressively more dangerous systems in order to acquire progressively more potent armaments.

This is in support of a common game design element: that reward should increase with risk.

Have you actually tried landing with PF2 yet?

Try it, and then see if you can honestly repeat that statement!


You can also massively increase the price of the weapons since they are from the black market!

[Redspear]

Have you actually tried landing with PF2 yet?

To be fair, no I haven't. But if it's that difficult then why not do it in a politically less safe system, where station to planet traffic is (with the odd dramatic exception) much the same?

You can also massively increase the price of the weapons since they are from the black market!

That doesn't help the issue, or at least not in my mind.
If it did then I could just ramp up the prices and not need all of this condition script kerfuffle.

To put it another way:

Considerable credit cost can't compensate corporate confinement.
Career criminals counterbalance craft capability climb comensurately.
Capiche?

Is that more in your language?

[Cholmondely]

Actually, I wonder if the approach has some mileage, even from your perspective.

I much prefer your early version of Weapon Laws with only a handful of places to buy more specialised things in each galaxy. But these are the places I know about. And they don't change.

Consider this.

How about adding in some blackmarket chandleries at a small number of planetary rubbish dumps? These could be constantly changing as they either run out of goodies - or get closed down by the planetary authorities (or possibly GalCop) - and the closures could be reported on GNN, alerting the player to their existence in general.

You have added adventure to locating/installing weapons (New Lasers, Weapon Laws).

1) Here you would have to find that the blackmarket chandlery actually existed in the first place (overhearing somebody in a bar? Inside a pirate cove? Tip from a chum/relative? Or a tip from Phkb's Black Market interface? Seeing somebody suspiciously going there, and then somehow tailing him/her/it on landing?).

2) Then find it once landed.

3) And then persuade the dealer to deal with you (and possibly with astronomical prices too).

4) And even then you might find that the chandlery no longer existed- or yourself in the middle of a police raid on it!



But it would be a heck of a lot of work...

[Redspear]

I much prefer your early version of Weapon Laws with only a handful of places to buy more specialised things in each galaxy

Is that not still the case? There was no conscious design change as I recall.
When did it change for you?

Consider this.

How about adding in some blackmarket chandleries at a small number of planetary rubbish dumps? These could be constantly changing as they either run out of goodies - or get closed down by the planetary authorities (or possibly GalCop) - and the closures could be reported on GNN, alerting the player to their existence in general.

You have added adventure to locating/installing weapons (New Lasers, Weapon Laws).

Considered it. Doesn't address the whole point of the oxp.
I'll say it one more time as plainly as I can and then I'm (genuinely) respectfully leaving it there.

It's about risk.

Issue: no need to leave the safe systems to iron-ass your ship due to safer systems being the most likely to be high tech

Problem: by the time you've bought all of the kit and caboodle you can head tio the dangerous systems and they're now even less dangerous (to the player) than the safe systems used to be

Analysis: the player can achieve reliably better and better rewards whilst taking reliably less and less risk (as their ship becomes better equipped) - I believe this to be poor game design

Desired Fix: make oxp (i.e. this one) so that player required to head to increasingly dangerous systems in order to equip increasingly militarily potent equipment - so that government, not just tech level, become a requirement of their sale

Rationale: that the sale (to avoid unwanted side-effects) of such equipment be restricted in the safer systems being part of what keeps them safe.

Desired Result: player must leave safer systems in order to fully upgrade military hardware and so that they must face proportianal risk relative to the reward

You have added adventure to locating/installing weapons (New Lasers, Weapon Laws).

Fine but there must be risk to go with it or it's not only different but contrary to Weapon Laws.

Government stability represents danger. Credits balance needn't, nor necessarily does fishing about for/stumbling upon rumours etc.

How about this one?

The ability to buy "banned" weapons in a high tech politically safe system.

There's the issue, right there.

You're suggesting an exception that, although it might be perfectly reasonable using real-world comparisons, is contrary to the design, purpose and even the utility of this oxp.

Further, as I've explained (or tried to) several times, they're not banned, rather they are only sold at certain places. There are real world examples of such including: alcohol, medicines and, I believe, weapons.

The same 'adventure' could be added without the association with the attachment to politically safe systems could it not?


Your suggestions appear to be counter to the idea of increased risk and therefore counter to the purpose of my creating this oxp.

If you already knew that then I'm left with the conclusion that at least one of us does not understand the other. Perhaps a large part of this particuar thread is evidence of that and perhaps it's me. My apologies if the latter is true.

[Cholmondely]

Your suggestions appear to be counter to the idea of increased risk and therefore counter to the purpose of my creating this oxp.

I respectfully suggest that

1) you actually try out PF2 (and without the atmospheric stabilisers at 5,000₢ a pop)

2) you reread my later post

[Redspear]

I respectfully suggest that

1) you actually try out PF2 (and without the atmospheric stabilisers at 5,000₢ a pop)

2) you reread my later post

1) Beyond the first cargo bay full of computers or furs, higher credit costs are more akin to adding time, not adding risk. Safe system milk runs til you've got the cash for whatever you want IS contrary to this oxp's goals.

2) You mean pirate coves and police raids for proportional risk?

Assuming pirate coves are found only in the more dangerous systems (and I could be wrong, it's been a while) then you've already gone to a sytem where the relevant items mght be likely to be available anyway so why not buy them there instead of back in the safe system? OR... have them tip you off where to get them in the dangerous systems itself. Another consideration is that they are an oxp addition I think rather than core game.

Having a police raid in a high tech (as you originally suggested I believe) safe system where the player has gome to buy weapons because they daren't risk going to a more dangerous system? IF the vipers turn up then that's nor really commensurate risk I don't think, that's more like all or nothing. The confederate/communist shy pilot can't typically survuive an encounetr with vipers, let alone interceptors (nor can most pirate gangs in the case of the latter). Sure, the arms dealers could join in but that still doesn't sound propotionate and consistent it sounds occasional and Draconian.