OoliteStarter

[Cholmondely]

Here's what I envision.

Arquebus - you might well have a broader knowledge of the space-game genre than any of the rest of us.

1) Can you point us to any other example of download managers which you think either do it better or have a better GUI?

2) (more of a red herring in this thread - perhaps reply here) Are there any facets of gameplay which you feel that Oolite is crying out for?

[arquebus]

Here's what I envision.

Arquebus - you might well have a broader knowledge of the space-game genre than any of the rest of us.

1) Can you point us to any other example of download managers which you think either do it better or have a better GUI?

2) (more of a red herring in this thread - perhaps reply here) Are there any facets of gameplay which you feel that Oolite is crying out for?

Pretty much every mod manager I've seen is bare-bones functional in terms of UI. Every possible option is present on the main screen and for new users it's a bewildering amount of information that most of them will never need.

For example, The Mod Organizer for Starfield (and Skyrim) looks like this:

https://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/mo ... 399789.png

The mod manager that most people will be familiar with (Vortex, from Nexus) looks like this:

https://i.gyazo.com/4e2e4f3c32d7f101f67 ... 984f8c.png

That's better? But it's designed to work with multiple games so it can't really have a startup workflow the way Oolite Starter could.

Notice in the Vortex image, the green dropdown menus that have "Enabled" on them. The options available in that menu include Enabled, Never Installed, Disabled. ("Never Installed" is basically "Downloaded".) It's a very straightforward and visually distinctive way to identify the status of an installed mod. The menu color changes based on its status.

The "granddaddy" of mod managers is the one for Morrowind. Most modern managers basically follow its original design concept, which was constrained by the fact that Morrowind was obnoxious to add mods to. Oolite doesn't have that limitation, so it doesn't need to have that limitation in the interface. Here's the Morrowind manager:

https://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/mo ... 354052.JPG

[arquebus]

Something to note about the Mod Organizer (first example) that I think is the kind of pitfall I'd like to avoid. Getting a mod installed into your game is a two step process: first you have to tell Mod Organizer to download the mod (usually by clicking a link on Nexus), then switch to the Download tab (there on the right side, very small) and right click on the downloaded mod to install it.

Why? Why would they make you do that?? In what universe is any player going to want to download a mod and NOT install it? Who does that? It's little things like that we should be wanting to avoid. Streamlined workflow.

[hiran]

Something to note about the Mod Organizer (first example) that I think is the kind of pitfall I'd like to avoid. Getting a mod installed into your game is a two step process: first you have to tell Mod Organizer to download the mod (usually by clicking a link on Nexus), then switch to the Download tab (there on the right side, very small) and right click on the downloaded mod to install it.

Why? Why would they make you do that?? In what universe is any player going to want to download a mod and NOT install it? Who does that? It's little things like that we should be wanting to avoid. Streamlined workflow.

I totally understand your point.It is annoying for users. Yet I have to admit OoliteStarter is not far from that example.
So I can tell they likely went there without thinking, and making it easy to develop the software rather than easy to use.

[hiran]

So we have a startup workflow defined. But once that startup is done, it does not show up again, would it?
On subsequent startups, what would the interface look like? Should it directly show the expansions? Should it show the savegames? Or allow selecting/downloading the Oolite updates? Or...

[arquebus]

So we have a startup workflow defined. But once that startup is done, it does not show up again, would it?
On subsequent startups, what would the interface look like? Should it directly show the expansions? Should it show the savegames? Or allow selecting/downloading the Oolite updates? Or...

Iteration on my earlier idea leads me to the following:



To clarify the Load Preset button: this would open a file picker to load up an Oolite Starter set.
If a particular OXP in the current set is not available (e.g., the user does a Load Preset but doesn't have some of the OXPs because they're not in the repository), that OXP would need to be highlighted in the middle list. If selected, the user would be notified that the OXP is not currently installed and needs to be selected manually. A "Load OXP" button would be presented in case the user has it ready to go, and a "Search on Wiki" option if not.

There should also be Search fields below the middle and right columns (one for each). These Search fields should be *super* simple, not full Regex. The search would filter (regardless of capitalization) any OXPs that contain the characters typed. Below the search field there should be a Clear Search button; we shouldn't require the user to delete the text in the field in order to remove the filter.

[arquebus]

Slightly updated:

[arquebus]

The basic interface assumes the following:

1) Checks for OXP updates will happen at Starter launch, and the user will be prompted to Yes/No those updates, via checkbox. This check stage doesn't care which/how many of the player's saves include that OXP. If it's in the (active) managed addons for the player's selected New Game list, it gets the update option. I'm not 100% sure how Starter works but I'm assuming that if you switch saves to one with a different set, the managed active/deactivated addons get shuffled around. So the update check will have to happen each time a different save is selected. Alternatively, the initial update check could look at both the active and deactivated addons directories. (The concern here - though it would be simpler - is that users might be confused about updates being requested for OXPs they haven't used in a while and are part of a save they don't care about.)
2) Saving presets is an Advanced task and does not appear on the basic screen.
3) Only one version of Oolite is handled - whichever install the user selected at initial setup. Managing multiple versions is for the Advanced screen.
4) The Remove button DOES NOT delete the OXP. There should be no way in the basic interface to delete an OXP, only deactivate it. People have enormous hard drives. A bunch of never-used OXPs is not going to kill you. If you want to do "cleanup on aisle 5" you'll need to go to the Advanced screen.

Oh, I forgot to note there should be a Delete button below the saves list to delete the currently selected save. Maybe also a Duplicate.

One more suggestion and then I'm calling it a night!
The Save Preset option (which would be on the Advanced screen) should have an option to package manually loaded (non-managed) OXPs into a zip along with the preset. And Starter should be able to handle the reverse, i.e., load a zipped preset and deposit the non-managed OXPs into the AddOns folder (with checks for duplication that the user can decide about).

[arquebus]

Ok I swear this is the last one:



The details would be just the descriptive text for that OXP. The basic user doesn't need to know the filename, doesn't need to see the conflict list, doesn't need to see the dependencies (which would trigger a pop-up if the user tried to add an OXP that had dependencies not installed/activated). At most there could be a bit at the bottom of that box that says "This OXP requires additional OXPs which will load when added."

[arquebus]

By the way hiran I do want to say very forcefully that I deeply appreciate your receptiveness to my ideas. I recognize that this involves a lot of work, absolutely none of which I am qualified to assist with, so in some ways I'm just heckling from the back row.

[Cholmondely]

Very impressive, Gentlemen!

Simple English

One minor point - about language. I feel that we need to have simple English on the buttons. Stuff that non-English speakers can understand or hopefully get translated into their mother-tongues without ambiguity.

And this is one of the last things to check for at the end.

[arquebus]

Very impressive, Gentlemen!

Simple English

One minor point - about language. I feel that we need to have simple English on the buttons. Stuff that non-English speakers can understand or hopefully get translated into their mother-tongues without ambiguity.

And this is one of the last things to check for at the end.

I agree. I tried to simplify the language in my mockups but if there are better replacements we should use them. Certain English words are likely to be ubiquitously known by non-English speakers simply by the fact that a lot of computer programs aren't ever translated so they end up having to learn certain words anyway (or at least be able to associate visuals with function). Ideally every UI text would be pulled from a text file that could be localized.

[hiran]

Ideally every UI text would be pulled from a text file that could be localized.

Which just means the software needs to be internationalized (equipped with replacable text), then localised (equipped with a set of text chunks) for a specific language.

That's doable but I'd take such effort after the UI has stabilised.

[arquebus]

Another iteration. This is getting a bit busy, I may be able to simplify it. This adds a separate list for locally stored OXPs (non-managed AddOns directory).

[arquebus]

Improvement. Simplified - no reason to have two sort and search sets for basic users.
Replaced the presets buttons with another list.