Janky time blues

[arquebus]

Still running into some kind of interference bug with the Goods Container OXP. I get one installed on a pylon but my cargo space doesn't increase. I wonder if it's conflicting with the Large Cargo Bay equipment?

Also, fuel scooping, I hate you so much. It's one of the few truly tedious things in Oolite, I'm surprised that Elite Dangerous got it right.

[phkb]

I get one installed on a pylon but my cargo space doesn't increase. I wonder if it's conflicting with the Large Cargo Bay equipment?

I just did some tests and I can't reproduce this issue. There isn't any intrinsic problem with the large cargo bay. But after looking at this OXP, the Cargo Space Refit OXP, and the Cargo Pods OXP, all of which are adjusting your maximum cargo space, I can see more instances of the issue noted by DaveMatthews here coming up. The problems all stem from when in the load game process the cargo space is extended, and when cargo is loaded. Depending on the order in which OXP's are loaded, and save game data is applied, you could end up losing cargo that is above the shipdata settings for your ship.

I'm at a loss as to what to do here. Reval (the author of these OXPs) hasn't been around in 12 months, so I'm not sure how committed he would be to fixing the issue. And I'm hesitant to launch into fixing them myself because it's likely to be complicated.

Also, fuel scooping, I hate you so much.

Which part? Traveling to the sun and getting in scooping range? Or the actual scooping part?

[phkb]

I just took a closer look at the Goods Containers code, and there is a definite bug in it. I've pushed an update to this to the Expansion Manager, which should appear shortly. There was also a minor fix to the Cargo Pods OXP, which I've also published.

However, I would also recommend this OXP: CargoSpaceCorrection.oxz
This OXP will make sure any cargo space changes are added correctly, in the right order, as well as making sure you don't lose any cargo during the game load process. Let me know how it goes.

[Cody]

Which part? Traveling to the sun and getting in scooping range? Or the actual scooping part?

I'll echo that question.

[phkb]

Actually, standby on the CargoSpaceCorrection OXP. I've found a bug that will need to be fixed.

[phkb]

And, fixed. I didn't include checks for any equipment that uses cargo space (like passenger berths). So, should be fully accurate now. Same link as before.

[arquebus]

Also, fuel scooping, I hate you so much.

Which part? Traveling to the sun and getting in scooping range? Or the actual scooping part?

Both, really. First is the travel time to the star. Not terrible, certainly not the worst I've had, but it still requires a fair number of minutes to get there. This means that the only real value in fuel scooping time-wise is because you have a deadline. It will *always* be faster in real time to just fly to a station. Which then makes me wonder, within the context of the game universe, why would anyone ever fuel scoop? Elite Dangerous solves this (but creates a host of others) by having you drop right next to the star instead of at a beacon.

As for the scooping part, I've not actually been able to do it, because I can't get close enough to any star. I melt before the scoop starts working. Which suggests I need heat shielding, but then that just raises a whole bunch of additional in-universe questions. (If you can't scoop without heat shields, why would anyone sell you a scoop without heat shields? If you can scoop without heat shields, but the number of stars where you can do it is drastically limited, why would you bother? Most of your fueling is going to be on stations anyway, only rarely being able to use your scoop.)

[Wildeblood]

As for the scooping part, I've not actually been able to do it, because I can't get close enough to any star. I melt before the scoop starts working. Which suggests I need heat shielding, but then that just raises a whole bunch of additional in-universe questions. (If you can't scoop without heat shields, why would anyone sell you a scoop without heat shields?

You buy a scoop without heat shields to go asteroid mining, or to scoop cargo pods.

[arquebus]

And, fixed. I didn't include checks for any equipment that uses cargo space (like passenger berths). So, should be fully accurate now. Same link as before.

I may be dealing with some additional variables. The Goods Container expansions I had were manually installed, old versions (separated by size). I swapped those out for the managed one and added the CargoSpaceCorrection OXP, to no effect. I may have to tinker inside my save file to remove the goods container that's currently installed (so I get my pylon back) and then try it again with the updated combo OXP.

[arquebus]

As for the scooping part, I've not actually been able to do it, because I can't get close enough to any star. I melt before the scoop starts working. Which suggests I need heat shielding, but then that just raises a whole bunch of additional in-universe questions. (If you can't scoop without heat shields, why would anyone sell you a scoop without heat shields?

You buy a scoop without heat shields to go asteroid mining, or to scoop cargo pods.

Well, yes, that's fair. But then in-universe it would make more sense for there to be a less expensive "cargo only" scoop. That's essentially how E:D does it. I don't normally praise E:D! This is one of those rare times.

Within the game universe, this thing is called a "fuel scoop" and has no other name anywhere listed inside the game. The fact that it can scoop cargo as well is ancillary, as far as the game universe is concerned.

[phkb]

I may be dealing with some additional variables. The Goods Container expansions I had were manually installed, old versions (separated by size). I swapped those out for the managed one and added the CargoSpaceCorrection OXP, to no effect. I may have to tinker inside my save file to remove the goods container that's currently installed (so I get my pylon back) and then try it again with the updated combo OXP.

If you save the game in it's current state, with CargoSpaceCorrection installed, and then reload it, the issue should resolve itself.

[phkb]

Both, really. First is the travel time to the star. Not terrible, certainly not the worst I've had, but it still requires a fair number of minutes to get there.

I tried a strict game, with just fuel scoops and injectors. The time taken to get from the witchpoint to scooping range, scooping 5LY of fuel, and then using injectors to get out of masslock so I could engage the torus, took around 4 minutes. I had two masslocks on the way to the sun, which added about 20 seconds of injector manoeuvers to clear. That's without heat shields. So it's certainly possible to do it.

But I'm guessing you have at least one OXP that is lengthening the sun distance, which will have an impact on that time.

In my normal game with my normal OXP mix, at Tionisla (for example), the sun is around 8400km from the witchpoint. It takes around 10 minutes of careful torus drive manipulation to get there, scoop fuel, and get to a safe distance, but I can certainly do it without heat shields (even with Ship Configuration installed, which *massively* changes how heat is applied to your ship - do *not* use fuel injectors while you're getting hot from the sun, kids!).

Of course, anything is going to be longer than E:D, because, as you said, you arrive in-system right beside the sun.

So, 10 minutes is a long time, although there was some skill involved in that time, checking for whether my torus speed was increasing or decreasing. If it was decreasing, that told me something was ahead of me, so I adjusted my direction until my speed starts going up again. That way, I was able to get to and maintain speeds in excess of 30000m/s.

What would you consider a "fair" amount of time to get to the sun, scoop fuel and get out of masslock again?

[arquebus]

What would you consider a "fair" amount of time to get to the sun, scoop fuel and get out of masslock again?

I think it shouldn't be much longer than the time it takes to get from the beacon to the main station. I just can't see the incentive otherwise. A full tank of fuel is less than 100cr and the only disadvantage to fueling at a station is the amount of in-universe time you lose. Which, in most cases, is irrelevant.

It takes more skill to get from beacon to station than it does to get from beacon to star, and there are more opportunities for adverse things to happen, so the player has to be attentive. Most of the time I'm flying from beacon to star, I can go make a sandwich. I don't have to have my eyes on the screen at all.

[Cholmondely]

What would you consider a "fair" amount of time to get to the sun, scoop fuel and get out of masslock again?

I think it shouldn't be much longer than the time it takes to get from the beacon to the main station. I just can't see the incentive otherwise. A full tank of fuel is less than 100cr and the only disadvantage to fueling at a station is the amount of in-universe time you lose. Which, in most cases, is irrelevant.

If you refuel at the station a full tank is less than 30₢. And you can buy a visa for the next system if you're not in an anarchy or a system at war with your next stop.

For me, with Stranger's World running and distances of 6,000km - 50,000km, it takes a long time to get to the sun. But with Stranger's World you only have to get close enough to scoop the solar wind flux. And this differs from sun to sun. The orange/red suns on the F6 screen can usually be scooped from the vicinity of the planet (but it is slo-o-ow). The closer I get to the sun, the faster the scooping. (Useful MFDs now shows the solar wind flux concentration).

But I also play with Diplomancy loaded, so need Visas for systems. I have always avoided the fines and flown instead towards the sun to refuel. Again, I'm looking at the F6 screen to check the sun colour and also the political system.

What do you think of the new Vimana-X HUD?

[hiran]

What would you consider a "fair" amount of time to get to the sun, scoop fuel and get out of masslock again?

I think it shouldn't be much longer than the time it takes to get from the beacon to the main station. I just can't see the incentive otherwise. A full tank of fuel is less than 100cr and the only disadvantage to fueling at a station is the amount of in-universe time you lose. Which, in most cases, is irrelevant.

It takes more skill to get from beacon to station than it does to get from beacon to star, and there are more opportunities for adverse things to happen, so the player has to be attentive. Most of the time I'm flying from beacon to star, I can go make a sandwich. I don't have to have my eyes on the screen at all.

Count in that not everybody is allowed to dock at the station. I had it once only and realized the many disadvantages for offenders and fugitives.
Or not everybody can dock at the station technically - check out the Imperial Star Destroyer.
Or not everybody makes it to the station due to pirates (which was the reason for me to fly the Star Destroyer)

After some time the Fuel Generator became my most valuable asset. It also works in interstellar space.