Musings for v.1.92

[Cholmondely]

I’ll put a simple OXP together for this shortly, so it can be tweaked a bit before I commit anything to the core code. I can do a similar thing with renaming the various mapping labels for the joystick functions.

The ordering of items in the joystick mapper will require core code changes though. I’m seeing how hard it would be to add some headers as well, but the order can be changed with relative ease.

The most important thing is consistency in labelling. Headers will help a lot but are less vital I think. (Although headers would help identify inconsistent labels, I suppose).

Since you are doing something about this, I'll try and come up with a proposal for the Keyboard Settings page for you to look over and poke holes in!

Is there any particular format that I should go for (in terms of making life a little easier)? "

Code: Select all

" does not seem to work well for formatting. Would a screen shot of a formatted page be better?

[phkb]

Honestly if t won’t matter too much what format you share the details. As long as I can copy/paste, I can make it work. If we rely on screenshots then I’ve got to restyle and that could potentially lead to errors.

Btw, did I miss the cloaking device in the joystick mappings list?

[phkb]

Here's the first "fix" oxp: AdjustPrimableEquipmentManager.oxz

[hiran]

While trying to make use of the DebugConsoleProtocol to actually interact with Oolite and interconnect several running installations I realize that to some degree I am abusing the protocol. Currently there exist only log output messages (with formatting information) and configuration messages.

I think it would be great if we had another set of messages about in-game events. This could be very similar to the world-script events but maybe should not be fired on every frame. Also direct variable access might be strange as everything would have to be serialized via TCP.
It would just be nice if we had some more events that come with structured data instead of my code having to poll for everything. The kingsize class could be some publish&subscribe mechanism.

[Cholmondely]

Appendix 1

Just thinking about the F1-8 screens. Part 1: F1-F5

Much of this relates to oxp's rather than the game code proper.

F1 since this launches you from your dock, the F1F1 becomes an impossibility.

It is a shame that one can't "prep" one's oxp's before launching (with two exceptions: HUD selection & laser/mount selection/rotation. Again, pilots run a half-hour of checks before take off, helicopter pilots run a full hour of checks.

Ideally it might be nice to have the F1 for pre-flight checks (one could have the engineers remind you that you are low on fuel, or need maintenance, for example, as well as having a pre-launch opportunity to muck about with the equipment oxp's & set the ASC) and then the F1F1 for actual launch.

F2 game options screen. Not much to say about this one, not with in-game being the real fascination!

F3 ship outfitting. Bizarre that Asteroids3D is launched from here. Bizarre that investment into your home system is made from here. The shipyard! Really?
But much worse, the list seems random and unstructured - and when you add oxp's it gro-o-o-o-ws. Thank heavens for phkb's Equipment Remove Item Color. And did anybody notice that one of Redspear's justifications for Weapon Laws was to make this page more manageable? This page is crying out for structure. Offensive Equipment. Defensive Equipment. Astrogatory Equipment. Miscellaneous Equipment. etc.

F3F3 ship purchase. Rental is covered by Extended Shipyards, but what about ordering a ship which is not in stock. I downloaded Werewolf because I wanted to try out the HUD, and have been scouring the galaxy trying to find someone to sell me one! There are oodles swarming the space lanes, but nary a one for sale anywhere!

F4 ship-station interface. A mess! 18 different categories!
Info for Planner. Informational for the more serious GalCop Galactic Registry & Market Inquirer.
Ship for HyperCargo (its not even on your ship, it's in hyperspace!), ship systems for everything else that is similar.
With virtually nothing using Library.oxp's PAD in any meaningful sense, the Captain's Log category should just be merged with the Logs category.
One can also argue for merging Library's AddOns with OoCheat's Game (or vice-versa). Library configures the game while OocCheat very definitely adds on to it (money, kills, invincibility etc). both are "out-game" influences on the in-game experience.
I wonder if some rationalisation could be made of contracts, commerce & deliveries? I suspect not, sadly.
Organisations seems underused.
It must be noted though, that despite rampant, rabid and egregious misuse of the categories (which is hardly surprising the way that Oolite works as a game, long may it do so), that this is a minor quibble. One can easily work out where to find things (unlike the F3 & F5F5 lists). Structure is so important.

F4F4 nothing yet!

F5 ship's manifest The issue here is the lo-o-o-ng equipment list which seems unsorted. Usable laser are always at the end, damaged equipment is in orange at the beginning, and the long list in between is a mystery. Who knows where to find anything there - especially when it grows and grows. Again, sorting it out into offensive, defensive, miscellaneous etc would help greatly. Or, maybe having it in alphabetical order. Or cost. Most players will probably have a rough feel for cost. This is less likely to extend to TL availability.

F5F5 While this does indeed contain the ship's cargo manifest, it also feels like a ''dump room'' for anything that does not obviously fit anywhere else. Look at the appended screen shot. Ironhide rating. LMSS dormant lasers. Reputations.

[Cholmondely]

Just thinking about the F1-8 screens. Part 1: F1-F5

Much of this relates to oxp's rather than the game code proper.

F1 since this launches you from your dock, the F1F1 becomes an impossibility.

It is a shame that one can't "prep" one's oxp's before launching (with two exceptions: HUD selection & laser/mount selection/rotation. Again, pilots run a half-hour of checks before take off, helicopter pilots run a full hour of checks.

Ideally it might be nice to have the F1 for pre-flight checks (one could have the engineers remind you that you are low on fuel, or need maintenance, for example, as well as having a pre-launch opportunity to muck about with the equipment oxp's & set the ASC) and then the F1F1 for actual launch.

F2 game options screen. Not much to say about this one, not with in-game being the real fascination!

A bit more thinking about this.

F2 game options screen: why not make this the immersion-breaking out-game screen for everything out-game? Would it be possible to have F2 for the vanilla game code options, and F2F2 for the oxp options? Then Library.oxp could put its immersion-breaking stuff here, and if Station Options.oxp did something similar for another .oxp, it could go here too (cag's Telescope Options is very much "in-game").

Is this already possible?
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
*F1 Launch page. So I spoke to a learner flier, and was told that there was a half-hour of preflight tests to be done before flying.

This discussion has been moved to a new thread: Pre-flight checks

Reference
cag's in-game Telescope Options page

[Cholmondely]

I’ll put a simple OXP together for this shortly, so it can be tweaked a bit before I commit anything to the core code.

I doubt that yet another oxp would help this one. By the time a new player has discovered it, they will probably already be familiar with the quirks. I think that what it really needs is a minor change in the Vanilla game for the first time player to make it easier for the poor wight.

And might it be better to change the text from

Set first fast activation (key 0) to Set first "fast activation key" (key 0)

Select the equipment to bind to this fast activation control to Select the equipment to bind to this fast activation control key


?

[phkb]

I doubt that yet another oxp would help this one. By the time a new player has discovered it, they will probably already be familiar with the quirks.

I wasn't imagining new players - it was more for your benefit of having something in your hands that does something tangible, and allowing easy tweaks to text.

Otherwise, I'm ok with the changes you're suggesting. Not too much of a change.

[Cholmondely]

I wasn't imagining new players - it was more for your benefit of having something in your hands that does something tangible, and allowing easy tweaks to text.

Thanking you, noble member of the admiralty!

[Cholmondely]

Appendix 2

I wonder if these oxp's should be in the Vanilla game code.

cim:
System Features Rings
System Features Sunspots
Ship's Library

phkb:
Solar Flares
Planet Forests and Oceans
Remove Individual Pylon (if we charge for selling pylons, should we not charge for removing lasers?)
Equipment 'Sell Item' Color
Auto-prime equipment
'No Market' Notification
MaintenanceTuneUp

redspear:
Paddling Pool tied in with the Easy Start option on the game menu (and start at Lave, not Zaonce).

norby:
LogEvents

Edited to add: I just came across a thread with some very important counterarguments for not adding more oxp's into the Vanilla game code: Core game improvements (OXP code worth inclusion) (2014) - see especially cim's response (Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:25 pm)

[cbr]

Appendix 2

I wonder

I wonder too;

Gallery : can show newcomers all ''encounterable'' entities

&

Station dock control

[Cody]

As I wander by, I too wonder!

[Switeck]

Is there any hope that Oolite's update manager could not delete older versions of the same OXZ? ...maybe make an "Older versions OXZs" folder?

...Or move the conflicting OXZs out of the main OXZ folder to a secondary folder called something like "Conflicting OXZs"?

...And there probably needs to be a Depreciated and/or Broken OXZs folder/s as well!

It is mentally straining for me to try to sort out all the conflicts with 400+ add-ons. I don't know how any new players could manage.

Appendix 2

I wonder if these oxp's should be in the Vanilla game code.

cim:
System Features Rings
System Features Sunspots
Ship's Library

phkb:
Solar Flares
Planet Forests and Oceans
Remove Individual Pylon (if we charge for selling pylons, should we not charge for removing lasers?)
Equipment 'Sell Item' Color
Auto-prime equipment
'No Market' Notification
MaintenanceTuneUp

redspear:
Paddling Pool tied in with the Easy Start option on the game menu (and start at Lave, not Zaonce).

norby:
LogEvents

I have no objections with all of those being part of the Vanilla game code...they could be pre-installed OXZs or be coded into Vanilla's files directly (possibly more dangerous conflict-wise).

[phkb]

Is there any hope that Oolite's update manager could not delete older versions of the same OXZ?

If the OXZ was installed by the DM, and the updates have the same identifier, the old version will be replaced by the new version when the update is performed, so this is happening already. Unless you're meaning OXP's installed in the AddOns folder, which is a different issue.

Or move the conflicting OXZs out of the main OXZ folder to a secondary folder

It is mentally straining for me to try to sort out all the conflicts

If an OXP has flagged another OXP as having a conflict, it will not be loaded, and you'll be notified about the fact when the game starts, regardless of where it is (ManagedAddOns or AddOns). Why do you need to move it as well? Unless you mean all the conflicts that don't have the property set in their manifest.plist file, in which case we're talking about a different issue.

And there probably needs to be a Depreciated and/or Broken OXZs folder/s as well!

There is no way for the game to know what addons are depreciated or broken. We only have "conflicts_oxps" to flag which OXP's are incompatible. Unless that is your point - that there isn't any way for the game to tell. Then there is the issue of "how broken does it have to be for it to be removed?" A station not having a market could count as a breakage, but everything else still works. As for depreciated, you could argue that "OXP Config" is depreciated in favour of "Library", but some OXP's still need it. It feels like there's a bit of a grey area there.

[Switeck]

I'm trying to back up old versions of OXPs/OXZs because sometimes (very rarely I admit) a feature gets removed...or things just worked differently. And as an OXP writer myself, I study those for ideas. It's often easier to make sense of an early version of an OXP/OXZ than the later versions that have lots of bells-and-whistles added.
Having an older version overwritten is kind-of inconvenient for me as a result.

As for conflicts, I'd like to have as few OXPs and OXZs installed as possible to get the desired results...especially if I have to reinstall from scratch.
Not every conflict or interaction is obvious -- I was getting killed at the main station in an earlier version of Oolite because Free Trade Zone OXP was tossing in 2-credit offender escort ships due to an interaction with another OXP.

It's because there's a lot of grey areas that depreciated vs broken is a mess.