Galactic Navy Strikes Back

[Cholmondely]

It is definitely mentioned - I downloaded the old 5.4.3 version.

That is what I was worried about. I sent Dybal 2 versions of the GN, 1 original and 1 modified for the GN XT. It seems he uploaded the modified version by accident. Welcome, you are the first Beta tester for GN XT.

Joke aside, this version includes more missions, a lot of external ships from other OXP's and a starter for GN Intelligence and was never intended to be published like that. I need to find the original and change the update link.

Well... I don't have any of the ships loaded (the only extra ships I regularly include tend to be liners, behemoths ... and missionaries, although I do have the full suite of "Systems.oxps" too).

An inspired idea to include the Caduceus though! I applaud you... it dovetails beautifully with the Lore & Oofiction.

I doubt I'll be much a beta-tester though... I can't see myself surviving the missions...

What I do enjoy is seeing how the Ooniverse feels so utterly different with the SecComs stations and the much more impressive, powerful and bullying feel of the Navy. Marvellous!

I don't understand why so many of the naval ships are troop/marine transporters though. My understanding of their function is that they are fighting the Thargoids and occasionally the pirates. The Thargoid homeworlds are presumably undiscovered. They seem not to have landed and conquered any planets in Oolite. So the battles are mostly battles in witchspace/hyperspace/interstellar space (delete as your fancy prescribes). So why all those Landers and Transports? What are they doing?

[Cody]

I doubt I'll be much a beta-tester though... I can't see myself surviving the missions...

For testing purposes, you fork a commander and make him almost invincible.

[Cholmondely]

I doubt I'll be much a beta-tester though... I can't see myself surviving the missions...

For testing purposes, you fork a commander and make him almost invincible.

My dear, dear chap... just because I can manage to dock at an Orbital does not mean that I can do anything much else. I can be as irresistibly invincible as I like, but when I can't even hit an unarmed worm with an OMGLaser at a distance of three Cavezzi... Araminta does better than I do with her peashooters and catapults... and Benedict just sniffs and brews another pot of tea...

[montana05]

An inspired idea to include the Caduceus though! I applaud you... it dovetails beautifully with the Lore & Oofiction.

The Caduceus Psi was my first ever OXP at Oolite. Since I am not bound by deadlines and budgets anymore my greatest curse is my creativity, I have a tendency to include more and more ideas in a simple OXP instead of publishing first and upgrade later step by step, The same happened here, the Caduceus Psi became a mega-ueber-ship and in combination with GN XT navy weapons was able to blow up any Wonderworm in seconds.

When I failed to include an "intelligent" ship (the ship kicked me out much to often ) I added a standard version to GN Intelligence.

I don't understand why so many of the naval ships are troop/marine transporters though. My understanding of their function is that they are fighting the Thargoids and occasionally the pirates. The Thargoid homeworlds are presumably undiscovered. They seem not to have landed and conquered any planets in Oolite. So the battles are mostly battles in witchspace/hyperspace/interstellar space (delete as your fancy prescribes). So why all those Landers and Transports? What are they doing?

Well, transports make sense if you not only think about troops but about fuel and missiles, more like a support ship. Landers are always good to have, while most likely not useful against Thargoids I still could imagine that a carrier group sending waves of them to a planet could convince a despot to rethink an unfavorable regulation/law.

[montana05]

I doubt I'll be much a beta-tester though... I can't see myself surviving the missions...

For testing purposes, you fork a commander and make him almost invincible.

My dear, dear chap... just because I can manage to dock at an Orbital does not mean that I can do anything much else. I can be as irresistibly invincible as I like, but when I can't even hit an unarmed worm with an OMGLaser at a distance of three Cavezzi... Araminta does better than I do with her peashooters and catapults... and Benedict just sniffs and brews another pot of tea...

Take an original Psi and you will be nearly invincible.

[Cholmondely]

I don't understand why so many of the naval ships are troop/marine transporters though. My understanding of their function is that they are fighting the Thargoids and occasionally the pirates. The Thargoid homeworlds are presumably undiscovered. They seem not to have landed and conquered any planets in Oolite. So the battles are mostly battles in witchspace/hyperspace/interstellar space (delete as your fancy prescribes). So why all those Landers and Transports? What are they doing?

Well, transports make sense if you not only think about troops but about fuel and missiles, more like a support ship. Landers are always good to have, while most likely not useful against Thargoids I still could imagine that a carrier group sending waves of them to a planet could convince a despot to rethink an unfavorable regulation/law.

True... but I wonder...

In just the past decade we have seen:
1) Russia gobble up the Crimea and lead insurrection in the eastern Ukraine.
2) Civil war in Syria
3) The usual fun and games with the Israelis and the Palestinians.
4) China building new military islands in the South China Sea
5) Civil war in Afghanistan
6) Fun and games with Armenia & Azerbaijan
7) Civil war in the Congo
Civil war in Iraq
9) The rise and fall of ISIL and the genocide of the Yazidis
10) The battle between Boko Haram and Nigeria, Niger & Chad
11) Civil war in Yemen
12) The usual fun and games with the Moroccans and the Polisario
13) Civil War in Ceylon
14) Genocide in Burma
15) Lord alone knows what in Eastern China
etc etc etc

That is on just the one planet with some 200-odd countries and just the one war-prone species!

So the Ooniverse with Thargoids and the 9 species of GalCop should be rather more exciting than it is. There should be war-zones, not miserable pirate-infested anarchies. There should be invasions. There should be all sorts of stuff going on.

8 galaxies. 256x8 solar systems on the GalCop charts. 10+ species, one of which has superior technology and is at war with everybody else. Political systems which loathe each other (communists, feudalists, fascists, democrats, plutocrats, anarchists).

If the Galactic Navy does exist in anybody's Ooniverse it should be very, very busy. Even if GalCop is hamstrung by veto-wielding politicians representing 2000+ different worlds. Those troop transporters should be in constant use.

And if HIMSN exists instead, it should be busy trying to avoid much of this...

The only .oxp I have noticed so far which seems to address the issue in any way is Diplomancy (I know that some of the missions in the other galaxies rectify matters a tad). Diplomancy is bit tame, though. It focuses on players, the new need to get visas to travel ("war" means no visas!), and players from one state now being fugitives in another at war with their own.

[montana05]

True... but I wonder...

In just the past decade we have seen:
1) Russia gobble up the Crimea and lead insurrection in the eastern Ukraine.
2) Civil war in Syria
3) The usual fun and games with the Israelis and the Palestinians.
4) China building new military islands in the South China Sea
5) Civil war in Afghanistan
6) Fun and games with Armenia & Azerbaijan
7) Civil war in the Congo
Civil war in Iraq
9) The rise and fall of ISIL and the genocide of the Yazidis
10) The battle between Boko Haram and Nigeria, Niger & Chad
11) Civil war in Yemen
12) The usual fun and games with the Moroccans and the Polisario
13) Civil War in Ceylon
14) Genocide in Burma
15) Lord alone knows what in Eastern China
etc etc etc

Ironically, from my point of view, this planet was much more peaceful during the Cold War. Leave aside Africa, since the countries there got independent there was always war, one dictator following the next. Near East, much saver, true, controlled by despots but otherwise not many wars. Well, Israel against everybody else was the exception.

However, I do agree with you, there should be going on much more in the Ooniverse. My idea of a Galactic Navy is more ships and certainly once in a while kick/remove some mad despots by invading or black-ops.

[Cholmondely]

However, I do agree with you, there should be going on much more in the Ooniverse. My idea of a Galactic Navy is more ships and certainly once in a while kick/remove some mad despots by invading or black-ops.

So what would be involved?

First List: Possible things needing to be manipulated in-game to create a war

1) Navies on the move.
2) Admirals giving orders... (of grandiosity to be determined...)
3) Massive space battles with possible player involvement
4) Wrecks, lots of valuable detritus generated for scooping (some too big to scoop!), life boats, rescue pods, beings in spacesuits etc
5) Planetary Invasions - and planetary defences too! Massive lasers scouring the heavens...
6) No-go zones
7) Regime changes

How much of this do we actually have ... and how much would be a pain in the unmentionables to manage?

Edit: List will be updated as inspiration strikes or somebody mentions something important...

[montana05]

However, I do agree with you, there should be going on much more in the Ooniverse. My idea of a Galactic Navy is more ships and certainly once in a while kick/remove some mad despots by invading or black-ops.

So what would be involved?

1) Navies on the move.
2) Admirals giving orders... (of grandiosity to be determined...)
3) Massive space battles with possible player involvement
4) Wrecks, lots of valuable detritus generated for scooping (some too big to scoop!), life boats, rescue pods, beings in spacesuits etc
5) Planetary Invasions - and planetary defences too! Massive lasers scouring the heavens...
6) No-go zones
7) Regime changes

How much of this do we actually have ... and how much would be a pain in the unmentionables to manage?

1) 3) 4) easy to do
2) possible and if just inactive for the player easy to implement
5) invasions could be done, planetary super lasers sounds to me like Star Wars, we should settle for defense platforms first
6) 7) possible but would require some analysis first

[Cholmondely]

Obvious question: What have I missed in my list?


Second List: Possible resources for somebody trying to create a "wars" oxp

*Configurable Populator has code for altering the population of the solar system (to reduce normal traffic in times of war)
*Station Validator remembers the destruction of orbital stations, preventing their magical resurrection on one's next visit to the system. Spara (2014).
*Coriolis (burning) - this has old textures - and needs finishing (when you dock, the station acts as if all were normal)

*Imperial Star Destroyer contains code for Factories (making Tie-fighters/Tie-interceptors)

*Leviathan Platform - a planetary defence platform

*Resistance Commander - a mission.oxp based on fighting against a successful invasion - features special equipment (page has links to other such).


Peripheral matters:
*Diplomancy OXP - has war maps showing warring systems, and allows citizenship of systems and declaration as a refugee for enemy citizens in warring systems (needs work - there is a perpetual declaration of peace, and a resumption of illegality in neutral systems if war is redeclared).
*GNN allows declaration of wars/invasions/truces etc - already used by Diplomancy for this

This will be updated as I am struck by more inspiration!

See also Category:Navies & Category:Systems OXPs (for naval ships for commies, dictatorships etc).




Edited to add Coriolis (burning), Diplomancy & GNN
Re-Edited to add Systems OXP's
Re-Edited to add Resistance Commander

[Cholmondely]

However, I do agree with you, there should be going on much more in the Ooniverse. My idea of a Galactic Navy is more ships and certainly once in a while kick/remove some mad despots by invading or black-ops.

So what would be involved?

1) Navies on the move.
2) Admirals giving orders... (of grandiosity to be determined...)
3) Massive space battles with possible player involvement
4) Wrecks, lots of valuable detritus generated for scooping (some too big to scoop!), life boats, rescue pods, beings in spacesuits etc
5) Planetary Invasions - and planetary defences too! Massive lasers scouring the heavens...
6) No-go zones
7) Regime changes

How much of this do we actually have ... and how much would be a pain in the unmentionables to manage?

1) 3) 4) easy to do
2) possible and if just inactive for the player easy to implement
5) invasions could be done, planetary super lasers sounds to me like Star Wars, we should settle for defense platforms first
6) 7) possible but would require some analysis first

So, I was going to bring this up - but then got stuck in the discussions about More/ larger galaxies - there should, as well as the battles, be small empires/alliances etc. It is introduced by one or two missions and also by Diplomancy, but it would be nice to either rejig our maps to show it or else generate a new map.

Pleb suggests this here:

I'd like to generate something along the lines of SOTL, with Empires and Alliances there on the map of the galaxy. As Montana05 and I were discussing in the Galactic Navy Strikes Back thread, there really should be more warfare going on. One could rejig the galaxies we've got, but with the amount of work involved, perhaps a new map would make more sense...

Well this was exactly my line of thinking as well to be honest! I love the idea of having more combat and factions vs other factions going on. DM me and let me know the sort of thing you're thinking of and I will see what I can come up with in regards to a new galactic sector/galaxy. Before I had it so that you had 2 to 4 factions on a map, and they had a defined territory on the map (using the starlane recolor feature) and then the systems in between were uninhabited (except for pirates, other explorers and traders travelling from one factions territory to another). The core systems were more developed (higher tech level, more police) and then the outer systems were less so (lower tech level, less police). Although I don't have access to this stuff anymore it wouldnt take long to recreate it.

What do you think, Montana?

I like the idea of a new map such as Pleb's or that of SOTL 2 - with lots of unpopulated systems, and some smallish empires or whatever, with difficulties trading because of the distances without stations and the odd war going on.

I also like the idea of trying to replicate (say) the world of Cherryh's Alliance-Union universe with trading and orbitals. Apart from the map, would that be so difficult to do with the Oolite engine? We would need to solve the problem of external docking and create some ships and stations, but what else would really be needed?

[montana05]

What do you think, Montana?

I like the idea of a new map such as Pleb's or that of SOTL 2 - with lots of unpopulated systems, and some smallish empires or whatever, with difficulties trading because of the distances without stations and the odd war going on.

I also like the idea of trying to replicate (say) the world of Cherryh's Alliance-Union universe with trading and orbitals. Apart from the map, would that be so difficult to do with the Oolite engine? We would need to solve the problem of external docking and create some ships and stations, but what else would really be needed?

I do have plenty of military ships we could use for this purpose, some of them specially adapted for different governments. Additionally, some stations and defense platforms would be available. Battles could be initiated either with a script or the AI and a planetary invasion including a bombardment is tested and ready to be implemented.

However, currently RL keeps me still busy so everything is taking longer than I appreciate.

[Cholmondely]

Copied here from the [WIP] Real-life economics OXP thread for reasons which should be obvious on perusal:

Galactic Navy runs on my AppleMac - tweaked commodity.plist markets and all...

My brief look at the code revealed some methods that I’m not sure will work, beyond the use of the commodities.plist file. Feel free to give it a try, I just can’t confirm whether or not it will work in its current state.

Loads of stuff comes up about turrets:

Code: Select all

08:41:37.237 [shipData.load.error]: ***** ERROR: the shipdata.plist entry "gwxturret" specifies non-existent model "ballturret.dat".
08:41:37.450 [shipData.load.error]: ***** ERROR: the shipdata.plist entry "navystat95" specifies non-existent model "adck_x-station.dat".
08:41:38.229 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_prototype_boa_normalmapped-player is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.229 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_prototype_boa_normalmapped-player is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.229 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_prototype_boa_normalmapped-player is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.229 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_prototype_boa_normalmapped-player is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.230 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_NPC_prototype_boa_decals_from_green_channel is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.230 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_NPC_prototype_boa_decals_from_green_channel is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.231 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_NPC_prototype_boa_decals_from_green_channel is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.231 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_NPC_prototype_boa_decals_from_green_channel is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.231 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_NPC_prototype_boa_decals_from_blue_channel is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.231 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_NPC_prototype_boa_decals_from_blue_channel is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.231 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_NPC_prototype_boa_decals_from_blue_channel is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.231 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_NPC_prototype_boa_decals_from_blue_channel is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.233 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_NPC_prototype_boa_decals_from_alpha_channel is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.233 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_NPC_prototype_boa_decals_from_alpha_channel is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.233 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_NPC_prototype_boa_decals_from_alpha_channel is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.233 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_NPC_prototype_boa_decals_from_alpha_channel is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.233 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_NPC_prototype_boa_Template is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.233 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_NPC_prototype_boa_Template is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.233 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_NPC_prototype_boa_Template is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.233 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_NPC_prototype_boa_Template is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.233 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_NPC_prototype_boa_decals_from_red_channel is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.233 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_NPC_prototype_boa_decals_from_red_channel is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.233 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_NPC_prototype_boa_decals_from_red_channel is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:38.233 [shipData.load.warning.turret.badWeaponRange]: ----- WARNING: ball turret weapon range of 7500 for subentity of ship griff_NPC_prototype_boa_decals_from_red_channel is too high, using 7200.0.
08:41:45.116 [startup.complete]: ========== Loading complete in 10.47 seconds. ==========

I can't pretend that any of it seems particularly important to me. With my meagre skills, I'm hardly about to start fighting with these chaps, so whether they have ball turrets or not, or whether their range is 7500 or 7200 seems somewhat irrelevant...

[montana05]

Here is the link to the original GN OXP, I updated the wiki of this package as well:

https://app.box.com/s/ekntv63rpfjkisf302q8fx5f7stjvph9

[Griff]

Hmm, i'll have a look at what's up with my oxp, looks like i should be setting some sort of 'range' value on the turrets, or maybe i have set one but it was too big, i'll have a look into getting it fixed