Split: Assassins

[Diziet Sma]

Great discussion, and many good points being made, even the ones I don't necessarily agree with, but this left me scratching my head..

anything by way of organised assassins just completely jars with the whole game canon, at least for me. It would make more sense if there was some more military side of the game, but as that whole area has been completely pushed to OXP then that for me again would be where assassins if they have to be in place should be.

Umm.. what?

Sorry, but I totally fail to see the connection between assassins and the military. Totally different fields, that traditionally have had nothing whatsoever to do with each other.. Assassins are civilian, and private, by definition. The fact that one certain super power is currently employing them as a semi-military instrument of foreign policy doesn't change that.

[Venator Dha]

Would it be possible to make the 'assassins' patrol the space lanes instead of hanging around the witch point (like the cops)? Perhaps Galcop enforce a no loitering policy.

[Disembodied]

Perhaps, too, there could be some low-volume bulk haulage available - someone needs a small number of TCs (1-5, say) of furniture shipped from A to B. If the base price was something like C*15 per canister per jump,

Many cargo contracts (in base game) have you travel >8 jumps...or more like 20 shorter-ranged jumps. Even 150 credits "profit" for 10 short-ranged jumps per canister is actually pretty horrible. And the question becomes: What's worth that much? And will assassins be attacking you along the way? Or just run-of-the-mill pirates through all the low government systems you'll have to pass through?

I was envisaging this as a much more small-scale enterprise than the large bulk haulage contracts: 1-5 canisters, to a destination within (say) 30 LY. Contracts to take a cargo to a system within 7 LY would be common. And I wouldn't envisage them attracting assassins, no: this is more like someone moving their household effects from one system to another.

This is probably better done via OXP, but I'd like to see what happens if the actual trading aspect gets dialled back (possibly just by greatly reducing the amounts of high-profit items available: <5TCs of Computers, Luxuries, Furs; <10TCs of Liquor and Machinery), and adding in short-range, low-volume contracts, so that the player becomes more of a cargo-ship-for-hire than someone who buys and sells goods independently, in bulk. You could still be an independent bulk trader, but it might take you four or five trips to various Industrial worlds to put together a full cargo hold of Computers, say, before taking them to a Poor Agricultural. I find I quite enjoy the first few low-budget trips, choosing between 3TCs of liquor or 2TCs of Furs, wondering if it's better to take 4TCs of Food or 3 TCs of Textiles ... but once the cash is there, it's "full load of Computers/full load of Furs (unless Furs are unusually expensive, in which case Liquor & Wines)". Once you're on that track, it's ~C*1000-profit runs each time, and a lot of the colour goes out of the trading.

Yeah, why shove everything within sight of the witchspace beacon?
Even the Constrictor does that, which wasn't the case in Elite -- you had to go "hunting" for it, not that it was too hard to find.

That's a slightly different situation, in that the Constrictor in Elite didn't exist at a specific place in the system: the game would eventually magically plonk it down in front of you no matter where you went. In Oolite, the Constrictor exists outside of the player's scanner range, and finding it at a random location in a given system would require waypoints, or a beacon and a working ASC.

[Zireael]

Would it be possible to make the 'assassins' patrol the space lanes instead of hanging around the witch point (like the cops)? Perhaps Galcop enforce a no loitering policy.

That's a good idea.

Same for smaller contracts (and I think it can be OXP'ed).

[Neelix]

Yeah, why shove everything within sight of the witchspace beacon?
Even the Constrictor does that, which wasn't the case in Elite -- you had to go "hunting" for it, not that it was too hard to find.

That's a slightly different situation, in that the Constrictor in Elite didn't exist at a specific place in the system: the game would eventually magically plonk it down in front of you no matter where you went. In Oolite, the Constrictor exists outside of the player's scanner range, and finding it at a random location in a given system would require waypoints, or a beacon and a working ASC.

Except that there are already well defined routes to search... you could put it almost anywhere on the Witchpoint-Planet Route, or even the Witchpoint-Sun route. Maybe have a message waiting when you get to the main station saying where it was last seen.

Another approach that comes to mind is that you could even extend the scavenger hunt once you get in-system. Get to the main station - get redirected to a rock hermit (and shortly after launching have an Adder or Worm announce that it's going there so the player can get a heading) Once you get to the rock hermit you get informed you just missed it and it was last seen heading for the sun. The constrictor could then be somewhere on the rockhermit- sun route.

This is just an example of course, my point is that there's several places you could put the constrictor other than the witchpoint which would let the player find it fairly easily while still having to search for it.

- Neelix

[Disembodied]

This is just an example of course, my point is that there's several places you could put the constrictor other than the witchpoint which would let the player find it fairly easily while still having to search for it.

That's true, although it would involve some finagling to prevent (or at least greatly reduce) the chance of the Constrictor getting blown up by an NPC ... the mission is, by its nature, player-centric, and Oolite isn't. Mind you, the dramatic possibilities of a shootout near the sun has a lot of attractions (and logically, the Constrictor must be doing a lot of fuel-scooping as it jumps around). Continuing the breadcrumb trail to a point near the sun would be a good idea, I think, and would likely remove the Constrictor from the attentions of Vipers, bounty hunters, etc., and provide a one-on-one finale in a spectacular location, with added glare.

[mossfoot]

Sorry, but I totally fail to see the connection between assassins and the military. Totally different fields, that traditionally have had nothing whatsoever to do with each other.. Assassins are civilian, and private, by definition. The fact that one certain super power is currently employing them as a semi-military instrument of foreign policy doesn't change that.

I would have thought that bounty hunters only went after offenders and fugitives (presumably above a certain minor limit, why waste time on a 7 credit bounty) but otherwise indiscriminate, while assassins were hired to take you out specifically (even if clean) due to your past actions (ie parcels, passengers that cheese of the wrong people)

[Zireael]

I would have thought that bounty hunters only went after offenders and fugitives (presumably above a certain minor limit, why waste time on a 7 credit bounty) but otherwise indiscriminate, while assassins were hired to take you out specifically (even if clean) due to your past actions (ie parcels, passengers that cheese of the wrong people)

I like the way you think, mossy

[Thargoid]

I was thinking of the military intelligence aspect of things. Military being a source of trained killers as well as spies and trackers. James Bond's galactic brother if you will, although somewhat more seedy and rough.

But that was my original point, this job should be what the bounty hunter role is for, to go and "deal with" anyone that they are paid to, no questions asked.

[Cody]

... this job should be what the bounty hunter role is for, to go and "deal with" anyone that they are paid to, no questions asked.

No, bounty-hunters go after people who have bounties on their head!

[Thargoid]

Yes, the payment is the bounty.

[Cody]

<sighs>

[mossfoot]

Except in-game, the bounty is a question of your criminal status. I could offer 500 credits for your head because you slept with my sister, but that doesn't mean that GalCop is going to update the bounty tracker to reflect that if I haven't broken any laws.

[Thargoid]

My meaning is if I want someone captured then I place a bounty on them. The hunter then does the job and claims the bounty as payment. But as by game mechanics they cannot capture only kill, the existing role of BH and the assassin one are essentially duplicated.

[mossfoot]

My meaning is if I want someone captured then I place a bounty on them. The hunter then does the job and claims the bounty as payment. But as by game mechanics they cannot capture only kill, the existing role of BH and the assassin one are essentially duplicated.

No, I see where you're coming from there, the two are very similar on the surface, which is why I was elaborating earlier on how the two might differ.

To me, Bounty Hunters should be people who go after anyone with a profitable GalCop bounty on their head (therefore Offender and Fugitive only), while Assassins should be people who are specifically after you because of something specific you did (ie parcel, passenger mission, and you could be legally Clean as well).

I would guess from a coding aspect, if you encountered a BH in flight, what it does to you depends on your Legal Status only. If you encounter an A it depends on if you currently have any taken on any hit-worthy parcels or passengers, or have incurred long-term wrath of someone who wants you dead.