Split: Cheat OXPs

[Diziet Sma]

I can't say I'm that keen on having any of my OXPs linked to any of this at all.
...
this whole thread seems to be going off in a direction I'm not very willing to have my OXPs follow.

I'm feeling similarly to Thargoid.

Not trying to ruffle any feathers here, but I don't really see how indicating if (and in what direction) an OXP affects game balance is a problem.. all we are trying to do is give people a means of judging how a given OXP may affect the gameplay.

[Thargoid]

Different people play the game in different ways (as traders, bounty hunters, miners etc) and what may change the game for one person may change it differently for another (with obvious exceptions of course where OXPs shift the whole game). Also if we're doing this then it'd end up being "scaled" as to how far they apparently unbalance the game, which is especially subjective and the main point that doesn't work for me.

For example I'll draw on my Vortex OXP (although Caduceus OXP is equally an example) - people say it unbalances the game as it's an ubership (deliberately, by design) but there is an NPC version too. So if I install the OXP but continue to fly a Cobra3 am I unbalancing the game in my favour (as I've installed a powerful ship) or against myself (as I'm not flying one, but am instead adding a powerful NPC ship). So what icon would that OXP get?

I can only think of 2 cheat OXPs (OOcheat and Killit) and they were both deliberately, obviously and specifically written that way.

[Diziet Sma]

All very good points.. thanks..

Also if we're doing this then it'd end up being "scaled" as to how far they apparently unbalance the game, which is especially subjective and the main point that doesn't work for me.

I admit this is an aspect that has concerned me, too.. there has been very little discussion as to what degree the balance may be changed.. or how to indicate such.

[Svengali]

Icons are not there to re-classify OXPs or stigmatize them. All they are doing is to make infos easier accessible. Like the text on Wiki pages they are the authors choice. They don't replace the need of texts and explanations, they only act, like the existing Infoboxes, as summary or overview.

This is what icons can accomplish. Other stuff is beyond their scope.

So if I install the OXP but continue to fly a Cobra3 am I unbalancing the game in my favour (as I've installed a powerful ship) or against myself (as I'm not flying one, but am instead adding a powerful NPC ship). So what icon would that OXP get?

Yep. The 'balance' icons don't cover these (and a few more) cases, so I'll let them slip away. This will also avoid any interpretation as 'bad and ugly, don't use' mark. What we can do is to create a optional generic 'remark' icon for everything that needs further explanations.

Also if we're doing this then it'd end up being "scaled" as to how far they apparently unbalance the game, which is especially subjective and the main point that doesn't work for me.

I admit this is an aspect that has concerned me, too.. there has been very little discussion as to what degree the balance may be changed.. or how to indicate such.

The idea was that the icons explicitely don't represent a value, length or unit. Only a direction. There are things which can be objectively measured, but it is a complex and nested structure which requires a interpretation of these values. That's why I've said that the decision for or against a icon is the authors choice. It is subjective, but in no way different to the texts. It would still require a text explaining the details, but this is not relevant for the icon, so I've omitted this part before.-)

[Switeck]

How about a red skull and crossbones for the really hard (on the player) OXPs?
Or a player icon with a red circle and line over top it for harder for the player?
Or cpu icon with a red circle and line over top it for harder for the NPCs?

As Thargoid (and others) have pointed out, how an OXP is used vastly changes its "usefulness" and risk to the player.
Asteroid Storm for instance is very handy if you're an asteroid miner like I often am.
Rock Hermit Locator is almost too powerful in light of the various novels (and posts here) strongly implying that they're supposed to be semi-hidden and secretive by nature.

Any station with a store tends to be easier for the player, barring other considerations.
Even if the station's store has nothing for sale and 0 credit prices it can still be used as a temporary storage while you scoop nearby cargo.
If the station has prices higher than the main station, it's a place to dump goods...and great care must be taken to avoid making "too good to be true" deals there.
I tried to make Random Hits store semi-balanced, but even it makes for some really cheap slaves (captured from hits and nearby pirates presumably) and possibly narcotics (though prices vary greatly).
Gold, Plat, Gems generally should be few in number and never for more than Rich Industrial price max. If it's selling them "for cheap", Rock Hermits are ridiculously cheap...so I'd recommend not going cheaper than Poor Agricultural minimum prices.

[Zireael]

Then maybe



or

I like both of these sets.

I believe that both OXPIconSummary and OXP Levelindicators should be promoted more on the Wiki...

Also, I believe somebody upthread mentioned making a -1, -2 Level indicator which would mark the OXPs which make the game easier for the player.

[Cholmondely]

This thread seems less about Cheat OXPs than about labelling them as Cheats or making the game tougher.

Perhaps it needs re-labelling? Possibly as "Labelling OXPs for new players"?



Our two labelling methods seem to me to be becoming less useful.

1) Ships OXPs make the game a lot easier if you have the uber ship. Or, reductio ad absurdum, massively tougher if the OXPs have them.

2) Using Library Options the difficulty-inducing aspects of OXPs can be tweaked to create a range of labels. Take two of Phkb;s recent offerings. Needing to return to the system station to collect your bounty payment. Or needing to fly down to the planet surface to service your ship. Both have a major impact on difficulty, both are tweakable.

[Wildeblood]

This thread... Perhaps it needs re-labelling?

Or, you could have just left it in 2013.

[Cholmondely]

This thread appears to be the fons et origo for Smiv’s OXP balance labels, and with the general discussion around it also being here therefore the best location for further discussion.