Elite: Dangerous - Design Decision Forum

[Diziet Sma]

It's worth noting here that if they mean actual inflation - prices for goods and equipment rising over time, so that missile which used to cost 30 credits now costs 35 credits - that the major purpose of inflation in a modern economy is to make it undesirable to hoard cash.

Actually, I'd argue that (another) major purpose of inflation in a modern economy is as a hidden tax levied by the (privately owned) Central Banks issuing the currency.

[cim]

It's worth noting here that if they mean actual inflation - prices for goods and equipment rising over time, so that missile which used to cost 30 credits now costs 35 credits - that the major purpose of inflation in a modern economy is to make it undesirable to hoard cash.

Actually, I'd argue that (another) major purpose of inflation in a modern economy is as a hidden tax levied by the (privately owned) Central Banks issuing the currency.

Though it seems to be the US that's the exception nowadays in having a privately-owned central bank; most other major economies seem to have it either part of or owned by the state. (The US has a lot of things privately-owned that most places have nationalised, so that's probably just their way of doing things) For a state-owned bank it perhaps serves the purpose that an official wealth tax would in a stable-price environment, but considerably more efficiently.

Interesting! Although I wonder if people actually produce it deliberately, or if it just happens

A bit of both. The banks can adjust the level of money in the system directly, but changes in production levels can make a big difference too - a bad harvest will probably cause excessive inflation in food no matter what the bank does, computer hardware will generally have significant deflation, etc. Which has the bigger effect varies, of course.

[Diziet Sma]

Though it seems to be the US that's the exception nowadays in having a privately-owned central bank; most other major economies seem to have it either part of or owned by the state. (The US has a lot of things privately-owned that most places have nationalised, so that's probably just their way of doing things)

Actually, a little digging around will turn up the rather interesting fact that the only State-owned CB in the world is Japan's.. (and you really should read the paper I linked to )

[Smivs]

I think you'll find the Bank of England is state owned inasmuch as it is owned by a government department. It was privately owned from its creation until 1946 however.

It was nationalised in 1946.
In 1998, it became an independent public organisation, wholly owned by the Treasury Solicitor on behalf of the Government...

The Treasury Solicitor's Department...is the largest in-house legal organisation in the United Kingdom's Government Legal Service.

[Diziet Sma]

I'd forgotten about that one.. I stand corrected..

So far as I know, the previous owners now own the City of London corporation instead.. probably even more profitable..

[cim]

Actually, a little digging around will turn up the rather interesting fact that the only State-owned CB in the world is Japan's.. (and you really should read the paper I linked to )

UK, too, as Smivs says. Looking at the others: Australia and NZ are state-owned, Canada is a Crown Corporation (sole shareholder: the government), ECB is owned by the central banks of the Euro states, and the big two - Germany and France - are state-controlled (I haven't checked the rest, but they hold so little power it's irrelevant anyway). People's Bank of China is state-owned (as are many of their commercial banks). Russian CB oddly owns majority shares in a commercial bank, but is itself state-controlled. India's is owned by the government. Pakistan's was nationalised relatively recently compared with the rest, but still almost 40 years ago. Brazil's is owned by two government branches and one government-controlled bank.

The US really looks like the exception here, at least in terms of large economies (and even then the Federal Reserve is not a private corporation in the conventional sense either).

The paper ... I agree with their assertion that inflation is not usefully redistributive, and its useful effect on getting extremely rich entities to spend money does also lead to problems for individual personal-level savers. The rest of it, though:
- yes, in terms of real return, 4% investment with 2% inflation is numerically equivalent to 0% investment with 2% deflation. In practice the two are not equivalent with the wider economy: see Japan.
- recommending the gold standard as the solution?! Or a fixed-volume currency, anyway, which has a whole bunch of disadvantages in the areas useful for currencies (e.g. mostly-stable price)
- definite US-centrism, and the US central banking system is a little odd
- seems to have at least some gut-level objection to electronic funds transfers.
- long digressions into analogies from physics and biology which don't seem to have a lot of relevance to the points they're making about economics.
(Which is not to say I think the global finance system is particularly good, but I think that's a problem of political priorities rather than the nature of the currency system)

[Commander McLane]

While I enjoy the economic debate (and have partaken in it), I think maybe the time has come to split it from the E:D - DDF thread and into its own thread. Although it started around the proposal for the E:D economic system, it seems it has developed somehow from there.

Linking the split thread with its origin wouldn't hurt, though.

[Gimi]

Next subject up for discussion in the DDF

"The Lamborghini then?","Much more subtle" Multiple Ship Ownership in Elite Dangerous

In Elite: Dangerous players can purchase and own multiple ships. The player can only pilot a single ship at a time, so other ships they own must be stored somewhere, and made accessible to the player in a believable, fun way.
The player acquires ships from various traders and vendors around the Galaxy.

• Players will primarily purchase ships for credits from ship yards
  • Ships may also be won through bets and competitions
  • Ships may be given as rewards for events or missions the player completes
  • When the player has acquired a new ship they will receive the choice to switch to the new ship or continue flying their current ship
• Players can trade in the ship that they are currently flying when purchasing a new ship
  • Players will receive a small percentage of the value of their ship if they decide to trade in their ship
  • Players will lose any cargo they have in the ship if they choose to change to their new ship
    • Players will receive a warning allowing them to back out of a purchase and go sell their cargo
    • Many shipyards have trading points where players can sell their cargo, although rates may be less competitive than at other markets
  • If the trade in value of the players current ship is higher than the value of the ship they wish to buy, they will receive the surplus in credits
    • The player will receive a warning when they choose to trade in to ensure they don’t trade in a ship by accident

• Players can rent (using in game credits) storage hangars to store ships they are not currently piloting
  • Players are charged a rent at regular intervals
  • Players are charged rent per ship they keep in storage
    • Rates may be different depending on ship size
  • Players can only use one storage location for their ships
    • The player can change storage locations and their collection of ships will be moved to the new location
  • There is a cap to the number of ships a player can store
  • A number of different facilities can offer ship storage, with a range of different prices
    • E.g. functional - shipyard storage, luxury – High end Storage attached to high end residencies in central locations, cheap – warehouses in remote locations
  • If the player decides to sell their ship without buying a new ship, or they are stranded somewhere they can pay a fee to their storage location to have one of their other ships delivered to their current location
• If players decide not to trade in their current ship they must choose which of the two ships they now own they would like to pilot
  • The ship the chooses not to pilot will be stored in the players chosen storage area
    • If the player has not chosen a storage location their ship will be placed in the storage of the shipyard they have just used to purchase their ship, that shipyard then becomes the players chosen storage
    • The player receives a day of free storage after making a purchase, allowing them to change their storage to a desired location without incurring charges
• The player can switch between the ships that they own by visiting their storage location and docking
  • The player can view all the ships they own and can select which one they wish to pilot
  • If the player selects to change into a new ship any cargo in their current ships hold will be destroyed
    • The player will be warned about their cargo and can back out of the change of ship to sell their cargo first
    • Many shipyards and storage areas have trading points where players can sell their cargo
• The players ‘rent’ for their storage is automatically removed from their funds at regular intervals
  • If the player cannot afford the cost of the rent, they will not be able to access their stored ships until the rent owed is paid
  • There is a cap on the amount of money a player can owe is capped
    • If a player does not play the game for a protracted period of time, they will not receive a bill for the total amount in the intervening time, they will receive a one off bill they can pay off from their ready funds
    • This also helps avoid the player being locked into one ship for protracted periods of time trying to pay off a large debt

Issues
Do we need a method to fast deliver players ships to them or their storage? could this be attached to a specific brand of storage space, i.e. I keep my ships in Luxury brand storage, I can visit any branch and they will send my ship to me? Is it too gamey and unrealistic?
What sorts of locations should offer storage?
How long should it take for a player’s ship to be delivered to them?
How many ships will players want to own and be able to store? At least enough to own 1 of every ship? 2 of everything? At what point is the space required too large to be believable?[/color]

[Cody]

Crikey!

Is it too gamey and unrealistic?

Hmm... no comment!

[Gimi]

Crikey!

Is it too gamey and unrealistic?

Hmm... no comment!

Yep, it's getting the treatment in the DDF.

[Cody]

Crikey!

Is it too gamey and unrealistic?

Hmm... no comment!

Yep, it's getting the treatment in the DDF.

<sniggers>

[Griff]

The new newsletter is out! Has some cool stuff for us old timers:
http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=dcb ... 94dad3b09c
Isn't the Asp upside down though?
The artwork they've putting out is amazing though, the game's going to look great!

[Wolfwood]

The new newsletter is out! Has some cool stuff for us old timers:
http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=dcb ... 94dad3b09c
Isn't the Asp upside down though?

IIRC, there were a couple of different models for Asp across all the old Elites. Will have to check the old models later. But, indeed, I also noticed something strange in the new model in the Newsletter...

[Griff]

Ah, looks like maybe the Oolite asp is the one that's upside down, here's the ships from the mackayj.doosh.net/ 'Witchspace' website (still browsable through the wayback machine website)





to be honest I think it looks better the oolite way with the 3 pentagons on the underside

[Wolfwood]

Comparing models:

Newsletter:


Frontier games:


Seems that they have played around with the dimensions of the parts, which means that they lose part of the attractive sleekness of the original.