Split: Difficulty for new players

[cim]

I am doing a Random Hits mission against a target in an Iguana. It is a level 3 mark with front and aft military lasers. I am in no way able to kill it. My shields are draining far to fast. I fly in a BCC with maximum shielding and energy from the core game. (No cheating with oxp equipment).

Well, you do get several thousand credits for the kill if you do get it...

I played through Assassins, which also has a lot of military lasers in, after making the AI/laser changes; it was tough but beatable - but they of course all have standard (in)accuracy. Similarly the Constrictor mission is tough but beatable, even with Griff's set. I suspect it's the accuracy that's making it really tough.

(How's your side laser fighting? The 1.77 AIs really don't know how to deal with that so well)

[Diziet Sma]

(How's your side laser fighting? The 1.77 AIs really don't know how to deal with that so well)

Leave it that way.. makes 'em more 'human'..

@ Eric.. if you want some real fun, have a play with cim's Skilled NPCs installed..

[Eric Walch]

(How's your side laser fighting? The 1.77 AIs really don't know how to deal with that so well)

My side laser skills are novice, but yesterday I was killed by a super-cobra using its side military lasers. So the ai is't that bad after all. I want to release a new version of the SuperCobra.oxp, but now containing SuperCobra versions that have side lasers and raised accuracies. I probably should keep the chance for those small though.

[cim]

Oh, they're pretty good with their own side lasers, given the chance. They just don't expect you to be good with yours, so there's a chance to take them by surprise. (In theory. I need more practice to actually get this one to work)

[Cody]

Hmm... I've never used my side lasers in anger. That may have to change soon, I suppose.

[JazHaz]

Hmm... I've never used my side lasers in anger. That may have to change soon, I suppose.

Not in anger, but I often use my side lasers fitted with mining lasers on asteroids...

[Diziet Sma]

Hmm... I've never used my side lasers in anger. That may have to change soon, I suppose.

Who knows.. it may even force you to start using your yaw controls..

[Walbrigg]

One way of balancing the difficulty for new players is to assume that pirates have some form of intelligence regarding the value of cargo a ship is or is likely to be carrying. There's canon for that in The Dark Wheel. At the very least they would make an estimate based on the ship itself.

A stock Cobra Mark 3 with a pulse laser really isn't likely to be carrying 30 tons of luxuries or twenty kilos of platinum. It isn't worth the time or the risk of an unlucky missile strike for an experienced pirate gang to go after it for its 110 credits worth of cargo. Much better to be heading to take that Boa Class Cruiser expected in-system with 150 tons of computers in an hour.

(That works the other way -- how did that poxy Cobra Mark 1 that I took out in 0.7 seconds come to be carrying 30g of gems and 10kg of gold anyway? If he made that kind of loot, how come he never got round to buying a beam laser or an ECM? These things bother me a little)

It would also open the option of deliberately carrying high-value goods in apparently under-spec'd ships to avoid attention, which is a cool idea.

The drawback is that now the pirates have secret knowledge that players aren't able to obtain. Hmmm, pirate spy network OXP anyone...?

[Eric Walch]

Well, you do get several thousand credits for the kill if you do get it...

But there also will be quite a lot expenses

I now used a different tactic: Just hang still at zero speed at a distance. The iguana kept a distance of 12 to 15 k. We both shot each other from distance and the iguana was slowly loosing . However, when his energy went into red, the coward jumped out and I had to follow hit through several systems:

Code: Select all

[oolite-random-hits-mark]: Mark has jumped out of the Bireor system.
[oolite-random-hits-mark]: Mark has jumped into the Qubiisis system.
[oolite-random-hits-mark]: Mark has jumped out of the Qubiisis system.
[oolite-random-hits-mark]: Mark has jumped into the Onteer system.
[oolite-random-hits-mark]: Mark has jumped out of the Onteer system.
[oolite-random-hits-mark]: Mark has jumped into the Ceisce system.

Every time in a new system he could make a few close hits and I made some to convince him he should also leave this system. In Ceisce he was out of fuel, but I noticed by now, both my shields were down and all, but the last, energy banks were gone. I managed to inject away and without fuel he could not follow. But, by the time my energy banks were only half full, I noticed that his energy was fully recovered.

Now the iguana was without fuel and could not jump out again, I could repeat my original distant blasts. But, I now noticed my targeting reticle was gone. No chance now of getting better shots on him, than he would do on me. So I have lost in the end, with the knowledge it was a beatable target, if I hadn't lost my targeting system.

[CaptSolo]

Eric, I have 1.77 installed, but have not yet accepted a level three mark. Do you make a practice of taking out their escorts first?

[Eric Walch]

Always, for a level 3 mark, you need 100% attention. You don't want to be distracted by escorts.

And with new npc laser overheating, the first few shots are a bit more heavy than before. So, a mark with 6 escorts starts with a heavy fire at you. In the past I often used the technic of injecting into the middle of a group. But this no longer works if one of the group has both front and aft military lasers.

[onno256]

I usually try to take out as many bodyguards as possible, and then inject away untill my shields are full, taking out the ones that inject after me...
Rinse and repeat untill I've got the mark alone. You do need to have as much fuel as possible for this.

Greetz,
Onno.

[Diziet Sma]

I have two main tactics for level 3 marks.

1. Hit the mark hard and fast, and just ignore the bodyguards altogether, come hell or high-water. Often, you can force the mark to break and run before you've taken too much damage. That gives you a little time to engage the mark on their own in the next system before the bodyguards can catch up.

2. Try to detect, engage and draw the bodyguards away from the pack, one or two at a time, from maximum range, without the mark having spotted you. This takes some care, finesse and patience. No using the torus-drive or injectors while searching, or you'll blunder into the entire group at once. Even if you don't get all the bodyguards before the group engages you, you'll have thinned out the ranks considerably.


So far, method 2 has a better success-rate.

[Eric Walch]

I have two main tactics for level 3 marks.

Oolite 1.77 might force you to different tactics. The level 3 marks have a 30% chance of getting an  accuracy above 5. At that point some AI tactics are used that none of the core ships will use. And for RH, the accuracy is already defined on selecting the mark in the bar and is stored in the save game. So no change of loading a saved game until you get a mark that has a worse accuracy (as happened with Oolite 1.76 were 50% used not the best tactic).

This time I finally killed my Iguana. I met him in fight with police and the Iguana turned to me without his guards. But nu luck, while flying away and only using my aft lasers I could not kill him. His escorts were called for help and following outside of my radar view. When I decided that I also needed my front lasers, I had to turn and the first two guards caught up with their leader. The Iguana was smart and stayed at a great distance from me. The guards however did close in when I reduced speed and were killed one by one. At the end all guards caught up with mom and were killed by me. In the mean time the Iguana had already shoot all his hardheads at me, which I all successfully ECM-ed away. A few times I had to use injectors to keep the hardheads at a distance. And the Iguana had already largely damaged my back shields, so I could not risk a missile hit.

With the guards gone, I went for the successful tactic of yesterday: speed zero and turn between front and aft lasers when they started to overheat, or when that shield was low on energy. The Iguana did the same at a distance but was less successful I did have the help of the mac target inspector on this. It is not doing anything directly, but gradually seeing the Iguana's energy lowering helps to show I was on the good way.

This time 'Mage Cymnoccasse' was more brave than yesterday, the fool, and did not jump out of the system. At the end he had to leave ship and I nullified his escape vessel. Only one piece of debris from the Iguana was floating around on the battlefield and I scooped it up as a souvenir.

Reviewing the fight in my log showed:

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Boa Class Cruiser received message: Sinister muppet! I'll vaporise your Boa Class Cruiser! from ship: Mage Cymnoccasse (Iguana)
Damaged: EQ_SHIELD_BOOSTER With name: Shield Boosters
Mark was killed by: [PlayerShip "Boa Class Cruiser" ]
Mark podded out of his ship
Pod was killed by: [PlayerShip "Boa Class Cruiser" ]
Player scooped Metal fragment with 1 units of alloys and status STATUS_IN_HOLD isCargo: true

Wow, I not even noticed I lost my shield boosters during the fight.

Damaging equipment is also my fault as I haven't maintained my ship for years. I know the chance of damage increases and so for such a big fight I should start with a properly maintained ship in future. Maintenance works different than most people think. On maintenance, the ship is not brought in mint condition, but only improved a bit. High level systems, however, do more improvement than low lever systems at the same costs.
The costs itself are variable since oolite 1.77. They start at a lower value than before, but end up at a higher value for the lowest degree of maintenance. So, for those who maintain regularly, the process is now cheaper, but the occasional maintainers have to pay more.

[Diziet Sma]

I have two main tactics for level 3 marks.

Oolite 1.77 might force you to different tactics.

Yep.. tactic 2 has been developed since I began mostly playing trunk a few months back.