TAF and game build configurations

[Rese249er]

Some kind of comms would be almost necessary, especially if the player is flying a slow, high-mass cruiser. At higher Elite ranking, traders may fall in formation with the player. This could be facilitated by an optional countdown to Torus.

Persistent convoys would also be a plus, even if the convoy is only persistent in relation to the player. Skilled players would be able to create their own small trading empire if convoy negotiations for a percentage of profit were somehow implemented.

Those players who focus completely on bounty hunting could also fall in as escorts for a set fee based on ranking, or even take point in a bounty hunting wolf-pack. Pirating players could do the same, assuming a meeting place for the offenders and fugitives was established.

...Vega Strike had a drive similar to Oolite's Torus Drive... gradual ramp-up and ramp-down based on nearby objects and their gravitational field.

...masslock deceleration could begin when the object is further away? At scanner range + X the torus speed begins to fall, until finally bump! you're masslocked.

My earlier point exactly, Disembodied. Thanks for explaining it better.

[Cody]

So, what about this: [snip]

Is this all conjecture, or are you thinking of having a go at it? If so, I need to put my thinking sombrero on and try and get my head around these ideas.
I must admit to be being vaguely uneasy about some of it, but I cannot put my finger on exactly why.

[Rese249er]

I'll try to contribute...

[cim]

Is this all conjecture, or are you thinking of having a go at it?

Definitely just conjecture. Some of the things that would be necessary to do it are going on my to-do list for after 1.78, but just the uncontroversial bits such as "double-precision coordinates" or "make complex AIs easier to write".

For what it's worth, my reasons not to like this idea:
- makes a mess of a lot of existing OXPs
- my instinct is to bring everything closer in so the torus drive is less necessary so that collisions between "interesting things" happen accidentally, and this is the opposite.

[Cody]

Definitely just conjecture.

Okay... cool.

... my instinct is to bring everything closer in so the torus drive is less necessary so that collisions between "interesting things" happen accidentally...

Hmm... this idea also makes me a little uneasy. Please remember there are some players out here (a very small minority, no doubt) who don't find the so-called boring bits particularly boring - it's all part of the immersion for some of us. But I'm only a dumb pilot... I know too little about the technicalities.

[cim]

Understood. Putting more things on the spacelane is easily OXPable, taking away what's already there less so, so from a core point of view I'd be going more for making the default system population more easily customisable by OXP - I have some rough outlines for that, but nothing further, at the moment - rather than changing it in the core game.

[Disembodied]

my instinct is to bring everything closer in so the torus drive is less necessary so that collisions between "interesting things" happen accidentally, and this is the opposite.

For me, it's not the distance that makes for "boring bits" - I don't mind scooting along under the torus, and I'd hate to lose the sense of space. Personally, what I find to be frustrating (as opposed to boring - it's never boring) is creeping along trying to overhaul another inward-bound Cobra III, when I don't have the excess fuel to burn to inject past them. Especially when I can see the laser-flicker of people enjoying themselves somewhere up ahead ...

As far as I remember, in the original Elite the player never encountered any other inbound traffic - all you ever met were ships heading out the other way (I remember thinking, "Where are they going?"). Presumably this was to avoid delaying the player, but it did look kind of odd. Outward-bound police and bounty hunters make sense, but traders flying out to the witchpoint ... no.

It's a knotty problem. A properly functioning TAF would sort out so much: players could choose the pace they wanted, slow ships would be playable, there would be no player-only torus drive ... I wonder if it might even be possible to simulate the negative effects of using a torus when in combat? i.e. if there are hostile ships on the scanner, and the player has the TAF anywhere above 1:1 (I'd rule out making lower than 1:1 possible in-game), then the game automatically takes big chunks out of the player's shields and energy banks. The AI isn't (so I understand) up to doing this reliably - so maybe just cut out the middleman and impose it on the player?

[Rese249er]

...if there are hostile ships on the scanner, and the player has the TAF anywhere above 1:1 (I'd rule out making lower than 1:1 possible in-game), then the game automatically takes big chunks out of the player's shields and energy banks.

[handwavium]TAF usage should take a lot of energy to sustain the time dilation. Shields would also be interfered with by the energy fluctuations required to sustain the dilation.[/handwavium]

[Thargoid]

As we already have both ship groups and escort groups in the game, why not make those the "(un)interested parties"? Basically rather than give the torus to the ship, give it to the group and move them en-mass.

Yes it would still mess up some OXPs, but it would be a lot less than just a general addition to NPC ships. And arguably (older) OXPs that add a lot of ships who are supposed to be flying together but aren't a ship group is in need of some updating anyway.

[Commander McLane]

As far as I remember, in the original Elite the player never encountered any other inbound traffic - all you ever met were ships heading out the other way (I remember thinking, "Where are they going?"). Presumably this was to avoid delaying the player, but it did look kind of odd. Outward-bound police and bounty hunters make sense, but traders flying out to the witchpoint ... no.

That's not how I remember it. Not from the C64, and not from the ST. I remember that all ships that were created randomly around the player were always inbound. Once you stopped using the jump drive, you were stuck. Most ships were slower than the player, so you could (agonizingly slowly) overtake them, but it was of no use, because before they disappeared behind you, more ships would have been created randomly in front of you. As far as I remember, the only way to get in-system reasonably quick was to hit J as soon as you jumped in, and not stop until the planet mass-locked you. Wait even a couple of seconds, and you were doomed. Stuck forever in one constant traffic jam right to the station's docking bay.

That's how I remember 8-bit Elite. (And I got my fair share of those traffic jams, unending voyages to the planet, before I finally and accidentally discovered the jump drive.)

[Diziet Sma]

I must admit to be being vaguely uneasy about some of it, but I cannot put my finger on exactly why.

Mirroring my feelings exactly..

[Rese249er]

I must admit to be being vaguely uneasy about some of it, but I cannot put my finger on exactly why.

Mirroring my feelings exactly..

Isn't that why it'd be made into OXP? That IS what OXPs are about.

[Diziet Sma]

I must admit to be being vaguely uneasy about some of it, but I cannot put my finger on exactly why.

Mirroring my feelings exactly..

Isn't that why it'd be made into OXP? That IS what OXPs are about.

Umm.. begging your pardon, but this discussion is about replacing the Torus Drive and changing game mechanics. Core game-engine stuff. It couldn't be done simply with an OXP.

[Rese249er]

...Core game-engine stuff. It couldn't be done simply with an OXP.

Oh. I wouldn't know...

I'm a pilot, not a coder!

[cim]

It couldn't be done simply with an OXP.

It could be done complicatedly with an OXP, though. Capt. Murphy's Escort Contracts already has a basic version of NPC torus drive and drive-syncing, and the rest is "just" changes to AI, system population, and some special effects.