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Never mind, I figured it out........again. Sheesh!
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Moderators: winston, another_commander
Haven't got the funds for military lasers, yet. Like I said, I bought one Supermissile four different tries, and took out the asteroid every time, but the station still went up in flames. That's without the asteroid hitting it. It doesn't matter. It was actually a good thing for the career of my Cobra Mark III pilot. It sent me looking for another trading setup. I found Onrira, a tech level 14 Industrial planet, and Erlaza, a mostly Agricultural planet, but much lower tech level. Man, I'm buying tech stuff, like computers, cheap from Onrira Station, and selling it for a huge profit at Erlaza. It's a better set up than Diso, and Leesti.Fatleaf wrote:What you need is four military lasers and a couple of cheap 30cr missiles. As soon as you launch target the big rock fire your two missiles and just unload all four lasers into it and keep turning to fire a half cool laser once you have red lined the current one. It gets close to the station but I get it every time with that tactic.
In Oolite are plain missiles useless against very big objects. Because of the way oolite calculates the damage, the damage done reduces with the size of the target. It was actually with this specific rock that I noticed the effect. Shoot ten missiles at such a rock and than read out the damage. Almost zero.fatleaf wrote:What you need is four military lasers and a couple of cheap 30cr missiles.
That is because the oxp tries to prevent cheating. At the time of writing this oxp there was only the energy bomb and that is removed on launch. In the current version there is a check about the energy damage used to give the rock the final blow. When that is far beyond the normal weapons capacity, the code assumes that the resulting explosion is so big, that the debris thrown out is still destroying the station.mandoman wrote:Like I said, I bought one Supermissile four different tries, and took out the asteroid every time, but the station still went up in flames.
Oolite Life is now revealed hereSelezen wrote:Apparently I was having a DaddyHoggy moment.
Not entirely sure I subscribe to that. While it's nice that the difficulty of the mission scales with the experience level (and possibly fitted equipment) of the commander, artificially turning it into a no-win situation feels cheap. So what if somebody blows a (presumably expensive) super-weapon on it to complete the mission?DaddyHoggy wrote:That's brilliantly clever Eric - Well Done - pre-empting the super-weapon - genius!
I'm also not sure that I would like missions which are designed to be failed on the first go and have to be replayed. People playing 'realistically' (ie, without reloading when things go pearshaped) will feel cheated.Eric Walch wrote:although it was never mend that this mission would be successful at the first try.
Finally, missiles doing less damage on a large object? Sounds like a bug.. Without looking at the source code, I'm guessing the damage is calculated based on distance squared from object, and (I'm guessing) distance is calculated based on center of object.Eric Walch wrote:In Oolite are plain missiles useless against very big objects. Because of the way oolite calculates the damage, the damage done reduces with the size of the target.
Hmm, no, should be ok - collision radii are taken into account. Admittedly not the most precise method esp for large objects, but missile damage -should- be the same irrespective of size of object.Micha wrote:Without looking at the source code, I'm guessing the damage is calculated based on distance squared from object, and (I'm guessing) distance is calculated based on center of object.
That's perhaps too strong a "message" to get from what I thought was an early mission.mandoman wrote:Exciting, dangerous, and if played right, obviously satisfying. I didn't play it right.
In Oolite 1.65 the main station was destructible by a q-mine so that use would kill the mission on its own. In later versions the main station became indestructible and I think that I only added that test of big damage in one hit to detect that situation. In current Oolite there are explicit tests to determine if a kill was by a q-bomb. But I left the old check in. I never realised we already had such powerful, non-quirium, missiles. I don't like the use of superweapons, specially so close to the main station. I now added code that generates big debris from the asteroid, ejected towards the station. That will better explain the station destruction when the big one was killed by a super explosion.Micha wrote:Not entirely sure I subscribe to that. While it's nice that the difficulty of the mission scales with the experience level (and possibly fitted equipment) of the commander, artificially turning it into a no-win situation feels cheap. So what if somebody blows a (presumably expensive) super-weapon on it to complete the mission?DaddyHoggy wrote:That's brilliantly clever Eric - Well Done - pre-empting the super-weapon - genius!
When I noticed the strange non effectiveness of missiles against this rock, I completely dug out the code without finding any reason. That was two years ago. Looking at it last week suddenly showed me the reason:Micha wrote:Finally, missiles doing less damage on a large object? Sounds like a bug.. Without looking at the source code, I'm guessing the damage is calculated based on distance squared from object, and (I'm guessing) distance is calculated based on center of object..
I don't use Super Missiles when flying the Cobra. I can't afford them, for one thing. But after having been called a coward, and then urged to throw myself at that asteroid to save the station, I decided self sacrifice must be what the mission was about, so I did what I could think of to do. One simple solution to making sure superweapons aren't used is to take them out of the game. Period. If such a weapon is offered, it's going to get used. Blasting a giant asteroid that is about to smash into a busy Space Station seemed like a perfect solution to the problem to me. As for the debris from the missile explosion heading toward the station, well, I don't have your math skills, but when I launched those missiles I was coming from the station, toward the asteroid. If I'm not mistaken, anything that causes that kind of explosive damage will radiate the debris out away from it's point of origin, especially in a void. If anything, the explosion should have destroyed other asteroids coming in from the sides, and behind, as well as any ships within the immediate vicinity of the blast. Oolite is not realistic. That's just a fact, and it doesn't bother me in the least. If I want realism, I just shut down the computer and go back to life as it is, or turn on the news to see what horrible thing has happened in the world lately, or even in my own neighborhood. Witchspace (worm holes) is just theory. Hyperspace goes against Einstein's laws of relativity. Without some kind of gravity dampener, men would be squashed by such speeds, even in space. Which, by the way, is why I like Larry Niven's idea of the Kzin (Jotok) gravitic polarizer engine. This not only allows their spacecraft a place in Oolite, it actually puts a damper on them. While their engine allows them to reach speeds up to %80 light speed, they do not have faster than light capability, such as Hyperspeed, and wormhole technology. Their motor allows them incredible speed in Einsteinian space, and because of the gravity equalizing effect inside their ships, they can turn on a dime without harm to the passengers. It would be a formidable craft, and I have been toying with the idea of them as an unknown enemy of the Thargoids, and have their ships show up during major Thargoid attacks on human worlds, causing pandemonium. Of course, the player would have to have a very high rating to experience such a battle.Eric Walch wrote:In Oolite 1.65 the main station was destructible by a q-mine so that use would kill the mission on its own. In later versions the main station became indestructible and I think that I only added that test of big damage in one hit to detect that situation. In current Oolite there are explicit tests to determine if a kill was by a q-bomb. But I left the old check in. I never realised we already had such powerful, non-quirium, missiles. I don't like the use of superweapons, specially so close to the main station. I now added code that generates big debris from the asteroid, ejected towards the station. That will better explain the station destruction when the big one was killed by a super explosion.
Ooops, right you are. My vote would go towards fixing it though. IMHO it shouldn't matter whether a bug has been there since the year dot or only since yesterday. In this particular case, since the change would be barely noticed for 'normal' sized objects it shouldn't affect most gameplay anyway.Eric Walch wrote:You see that there still remains a radius dependent component in the formula that calculates the damage when bringing it back to a fixed distance to surface. For one D value the result still changes with changing radii.
Its a bug that only becomes visible against objects greater than most standard objects. But I don't want to change anything in the damage calculation before a 1.76 release because it would change the missile damage as we had it since the beginning of Oolite. When you make it the same for small objects, it will change for big objects. (And vise versa)
Ah, I'd keep Anaconda's cargo capacity as it is, but I'd fix Cobra mk III's speed back to 0.30 LS, to keep some basics true to ELITE.Micha wrote:Then again I'd also fix the Anaconda's cargo capacity...
Not my decision though - but definitely something to keep in mind.
I think there were some good reasons for cranking the Cobra III's speed up – not least the fact that in Elite, the merchant ships you passed were travelling away from the planet, rather than towards it, and so you weren't masslocked for nearly so long. Of course, I always did wonder where they were going ... Anyway, I'd be very wary of undoing what was obviously a deliberate amendment, merely to keep pace with the original game. This is probably the biggest advantage to be had from changing the Torus drive to a properly functioning TAF, by the way: by disposing of the masslock problem, it would make slower ships playable. The range of playable ships would be greatly expanded, without having to constantly cram faster and faster ships into the top of the speed range.Zieman wrote:Ah, I'd keep Anaconda's cargo capacity as it is, but I'd fix Cobra mk III's speed back to 0.30 LS, to keep some basics true to ELITE.