Hostiles at the main station in v1.74.2?

Frame · Post by **Frame** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:32 pm

Commander McLane wrote:
Frame wrote:
Smivs wrote:
Are there any? That's so close you could walk!
oh

a light year is 9,460,730,472,580.8 km so Lets presume you would only need to go half that distance.. with an average walking speed of 5 kmh.

it would only take you 107925284,88 years..

Cheers Frame...
He was probably speaking figuratively.

Yes , i just felt like filling in the "I wonder how far it is"..

at least i can never remember how far an LY is

exactly 9,460,730,472,580.8 km.

Cheers Frame..

Website · Post by **DaddyHoggy** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:18 pm

Ah, but it's only that far travelling through a vacuum...

Commander McLane · Post by **Commander McLane** » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:30 pm

DaddyHoggy wrote:
Ah, but it's only that far travelling through a vacuum...

However, if you feel that this is a bug in the universe, you would have to file the report somewhere else, I'm afraid.

Cmd. Cheyd · Post by **Cmd. Cheyd** » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:37 pm

Light could travel as little as 33,310,088,526 miles (that's 53,607,391,100 kilometers for those who are more comfortable in that system) a year.

Website · Post by **DaddyHoggy** » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:16 pm

Cmd. Cheyd wrote:
Light could travel as little as 33,310,088,526 miles (that's 53,607,391,100 kilometers for those who are more comfortable in that system) a year.

With a bit of jiggery-pokery you can stop it moving at all...

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/ ... 935654.htm

Switeck · Post by **Switeck** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:25 am

Here's 2 examples of the Krait attacker:

[universe.objectDump]: Ent: 0 PlayerEntity "Boa Class Cruiser" position: (-51733.3, 18112, 379659) scanClass: CLASS_PLAYER status: STATUS_IN_FLIGHT range: 0 (visible: yes) mass 182441
[universe.objectDump]: Ent: 1 OOSparkEntity position: (-51334.8, 18331.9, 379809) scanClass: CLASS_NO_DRAW status: STATUS_EFFECT range: 479.189 (visible: yes)
[universe.objectDump]: Ent: 2 StationEntity "Coriolis Station" "Coriolis Station" position: (-56749.8, 17692.5, 383264) scanClass: CLASS_STATION status: STATUS_ACTIVE range: 6191.68 (visible: yes) mass 2.42107e+008 AI: stationAI.plist:IDLE
[universe.objectDump]: Ent: 3 ShipEntity "Navigation Buoy" position: (-49584.4, 15458.6, 389872) scanClass: CLASS_BUOY status: STATUS_IN_FLIGHT range: 10768.6 (visible: yes) mass 383596 AI: buoyRepairBuoyAI.plist:GLOBAL
[universe.objectDump]: Ent: 4 ShipEntity "Krait" position: (-48937.4, 19765.2, 380724) scanClass: CLASS_NEUTRAL status: STATUS_IN_FLIGHT range: 5273.41 (visible: yes) mass 80030.1 AI: pirateAI.plist:ATTACK_SHIP

[universe.objectDump]: DEBUG: Entity Dump - [entities count] = 86, n_entities = 86
[universe.objectDump]: Ent: 0 PlayerEntity "Boa Class Cruiser" position: (-61378.1, -67859.6, 637963) scanClass: CLASS_PLAYER status: STATUS_IN_FLIGHT range: 0 (visible: yes) mass 182441
[universe.objectDump]: Ent: 2 ShipEntity "Navigation Buoy" position: (-62147.2, -68451.3, 639220) scanClass: CLASS_BUOY status: STATUS_IN_FLIGHT range: 1587.85 (visible: yes) mass 1.46887e+007 AI: buoyAI.plist:GLOBAL
[universe.objectDump]: Ent: 3 ShipEntity "Krait" position: (-57592.6, -66420, 636071) scanClass: CLASS_NEUTRAL status: STATUS_IN_FLIGHT range: 4470.2 (visible: yes) mass 80030.1 AI: pirateAI.plist:ATTACK_SHIP
[universe.objectDump]: Ent: 4 StationEntity "Coriolis Station" "Coriolis Station" position: (-68080.7, -74986.6, 634521) scanClass: CLASS_STATION status: STATUS_ACTIVE range: 10371.5 (visible: yes) mass 2.42107e+008 AI: stationAI.plist:IDLE
[universe.objectDump]: Ent: 7 OOPlanetEntity ID: 1641 position: (0, 0, 688440) type: STELLAR_TYPE_NORMAL_PLANET radius: 57.370km range: 104499 (visible: yes)

It has to be "generated" somehow, because the enemy is almost always a Krait or Mamba (or both) that both are worth 2 credits bounty. I'm often using TAF set at 16x AND the torus drive to get from witchpoint to station in <1 minute realtime and still sometimes finding these hostiles there. They must have loaded their cargo off trader-victims pretty fast to beat me there!

Post by **Eric Walch** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:27 am

Switeck wrote:

Here's 2 examples of the Krait attacker:

Code: Select all

[universe.objectDump]: Ent:   4  ShipEntity "Krait" position: (-48937.4, 19765.2, 380724) scanClass: CLASS_NEUTRAL status: STATUS_IN_FLIGHT range: 5273.41 (visible: yes) mass 80030.1 AI: pirateAI.plist:ATTACK_SHIP

They are still in pirateAI.plist so my suggestion of pirates returning as traders is not true in this case. But when added by the populator, all ships with a pirate role should be there with equal chances. So its odd that you only see specific ships and not the asps and the occasional black-dog python.

As said before: targeting the ship and doing a target dump (shift-H) of the specific ship might give more extensive clues, like the role of the ship. Was it added with role pirate?

Switeck · Post by **Switeck** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:42 pm

I've since seen pirate Kraits launch from both the Superhub and the regular main station. (I've seen Mambas and Sidewinders also, just never saw them specifically launch...which is not to say they don't.) And they're always starting with 2 credit bounty! And because they're hostile from the moment they clear the station, I'd say they were added with the pirate role.

These seem to appear in pairs, as I don't recall seeing just one such pirate at the time near the station. More than 2 is possible, but seems far rarer than just 2.

I found this in shipdata.plist of FTZ v0.13.oxp ("Free Trade Zone"):

<key>ftzescort1</key>
<dict>
<key>like_ship</key>
<string>krait</string>
<key>ai_type</key>
<string>escortAI.plist</string>
<key>bounty</key>
<integer>2</integer>
<key>roles</key>
<string>escort</string>
</dict>
<key>ftzescort2</key>
<dict>
<key>like_ship</key>
<string>sidewinder</string>
<key>ai_type</key>
<string>escortAI.plist</string>
<key>bounty</key>
<integer>2</integer>
<key>roles</key>
<string>escort</string>
</dict>
<key>ftzescort3</key>
<dict>
<key>like_ship</key>
<string>mamba</string>
<key>ai_type</key>
<string>escortAI.plist</string>
<key>bounty</key>
<integer>2</integer>
<key>roles</key>
<string>escort</string>
</dict>

I don't always have that installed and I don't recall if I was attacked by 2-credit pirates at the station without it installed.

Assuming this is the source of the pirates, it might explain what I'm seeing...but to me it still would qualify as a bug/bad logic. Presumably the reason I'm seeing them in pairs is because the big cargo haulers (Anaconda, Boa, Boa 2, and Pythons) all have 2, 4, or 6 escorts. So the game is choosing escorts at random and these would be legitimate choices. However, the big cargo hauler mothership would not normally be a pirate...so why should its escorts act as pirates just because they have a small bounty on them?

They're using the escortAI.plist at least according to above, so they should follow the lead of their mothership. I've seen these escort ships launch from the station and immediately attack me. This means they've already given up on their escort duty pretty much from the start.

The only clues atm are in the escortAI.plist file:

"CHOOSE_NEW_CAREER" = {
ENTER = (checkOwnLegalStatus);
"SELF_CLEAN" = ("switchAITo: route1patrolAI.plist");
"SELF_MINOR_OFFENDER" = (checkForFullHold);
"SELF_OFFENDER" = (checkForFullHold);
"SELF_FUGITIVE" = ("switchAITo: pirateAI.plist");
"SELF_THARGOID" = ("switchAITo: thargoidAI.plist");
"NO_CARGO_BAY" = ("switchAITo: route1patrolAI.plist");
"HOLD_FULL" = ("switchAITo: route1traderAI.plist");
"HOLD_NOT_FULL" = ("switchAITo: pirateAI.plist");

So the mothership docking or witchspacing out...or not existing in the first place...
"was enough to make a shy, bald buddhist reflect and plan a mass-murder"?

Commander McLane · Post by **Commander McLane** » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:03 am

Indeed it is far more likely that they were added as escorts (happens also a lot with Tigers, if you have the OXP installed).

It goes like this: Some trader (Anaconda or Boa) launches and gets some escorts added, randomly chosen from all ships with role "escort". These escorts launch as well, but they only connect to their mother right after launching. Now, some of the ships with role "escort" have a bounty defined without setting autoAI to true. This is buggy OXPing, because on spawning (or launching) they always get this bounty, even if spawned as the escort of a clean trader. But clean mothers only accept clean escorts. So the newly launched escort-with-a-bounty is refused by its own mother. The mother and the clean escorts jump out, but the escorts-with-bounties stay behind and go into the routine of CHOOSE_NEW_CAREER. Therefore they end up as pirates, and usually are at once attacked by the station's police.

Post by **Eric Walch** » Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:08 pm

Commander McLane wrote:
It goes like this: Some trader (Anaconda or Boa) launches and gets some escorts added, randomly chosen from all ships with role "escort". These escorts launch as well, but they only connect to their mother right after launching. Now, some of the ships with role "escort" have a bounty defined without setting autoAI to true. This is buggy OXPing, because on spawning (or launching) they always get this bounty, even if spawned as the escort of a clean trader. But clean mothers only accept clean escorts. So the newly launched escort-with-a-bounty is refused by its own mother.

Yes, I just checked and that is what happens. I first doubted, because the way escorts launched has changed several ways between versions. Before 1.72 they were launched with the same group ID as their mother. In 1.72 they were launched independent of their mother and only started to look for a mother after launch. But this resulted in escorts often selecting docking ships as their mother with buggy results.
In 1.73 Ahruman added new group code for ships. I rewrote the launching part in a way that escorts were already put in the mothers group before launch. (Like it was before 1.72 but now with the new group structure). With the console you can test all this.

I typed:

Code: Select all

this.ship = system.mainStation.launchShipWithRole("woma")
this.ship.escorts[0].bounty = 10
this.ship.escorts[0].reportAIMessages = true

before any of the ships launched. Now wait until the escort launches and you'll get a log, something like:

Code: Select all

[ai.message.receive]: AI escortAI.plist for Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 in state 'GLOBAL' receives message 'EXIT'
[ai.message.receive]: AI escortAI.plist for Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 in state 'GLOBAL' receives message 'ENTER'
[ai.takeAction]: Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 to take action setStateTo: BEGIN_BUSINESS
  [ai.message.receive]: AI escortAI.plist for Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 in state 'GLOBAL' receives message 'EXIT'
  [ai.message.receive]: AI escortAI.plist for Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 in state 'BEGIN_BUSINESS' receives message 'ENTER'
[ai.message.receive]: AI escortAI.plist for Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 in state 'BEGIN_BUSINESS' receives message 'LAUNCHED OKAY'
[ai.takeAction]: Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 to take action setStateTo: CLEAR_STATION
  [ai.message.receive]: AI escortAI.plist for Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 in state 'BEGIN_BUSINESS' receives message 'EXIT'
  [ai.message.receive]: AI escortAI.plist for Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 in state 'CLEAR_STATION' receives message 'ENTER'
  [ai.takeAction]: Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 to take action getWitchspaceEntryCoordinates
  [ai.takeAction]: Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 to take action setDestinationFromCoordinates
  [ai.takeAction]: Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 to take action setDesiredRangeTo: 5000.0
  [ai.takeAction]: Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 to take action setSpeedFactorTo: 0.50
  [ai.takeAction]: Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 to take action performFlyToRangeFromDestination
  [ai.takeAction]: Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 to take action escortCheckMother
[ai.takeAction]: Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 to take action pauseAI: 15.0
[ai.message.receive]: AI escortAI.plist for Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 in state 'CLEAR_STATION' receives message 'NOT_ESCORTING'
[ai.takeAction]: Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 to take action scanForFormationLeader
[ai.message.receive]: AI escortAI.plist for Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 in state 'CLEAR_STATION' receives message 'AEGIS_IN_DOCKING_RANGE'
[ai.takeAction]: Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 to take action pauseAI: 15.0
[ai.message.receive]: AI escortAI.plist for Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 in state 'CLEAR_STATION' receives message 'NOTHING_FOUND'
...
  [ai.message.receive]: AI escortAI.plist for Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 in state 'CHOOSE_NEW_CAREER' receives message 'ENTER'
  [ai.takeAction]: Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 to take action checkOwnLegalStatus
[ai.message.receive]: AI escortAI.plist for Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 in state 'CHOOSE_NEW_CAREER' receives message 'SELF_MINOR_OFFENDER'
[ai.takeAction]: Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 to take action checkForFullHold
[ai.message.receive]: AI escortAI.plist for Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 in state 'CHOOSE_NEW_CAREER' receives message 'NO_CARGO_BAY'
[ai.takeAction]: Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 to take action switchAITo: route1patrolAI.plist
  [ai.stack.push]: Pushing state machine for <AI 0x1210c1590>{"escortAI.plist" in state: "CHOOSE_NEW_CAREER" for Sidewinder Woma Escort 382}
  [ai.message.receive]: AI route1patrolAI.plist for Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 in state 'GLOBAL' receives message 'ENTER'
  [ai.takeAction]: Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 to take action switchLightsOff
  [ai.takeAction]: Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 to take action setStateTo: HEAD_FOR_WITCHPOINT

NB "woma" is part of the transports.oxp. I just took that role because I know it has escorts.

When you are on the mac like McLane you can type:

Code: Select all

this.ship.escorts[0].inspect()

instead of

Code: Select all

this.ship.escorts[0].reportAIMessages = true

This will bring up the target inspector on a mac for better view of the escort parameters. There you will see that after some time the group count is reduced by one

So although the escorts start as part of the group, their mother expels the escort immediately after the escort launches. This feature was added some versions ago to prevent a clean mother getting in conflict with police because of naughty escorts.

Result is that the offender escort is on its own after launch and chooses a new career suitable for its offender state.

---

But, the main problem is in FTZ v0.13.oxp. There is no need to give those escorts an "escort" role. They are only mend to be selected by some FTZ ships by means of their ship-key. The escort role is not needed at all, so better change the roles there to "ftz-escort" to give them an exclusive role.

Post by **Disembodied** » Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:02 pm

Eric Walch wrote:
But, the main problem is in FTZ v0.13.oxp. There is no need to give those escorts an "escort" role. They are only mend to be selected by some FTZ ships by means of their ship-key. The escort role is not needed at all, so better change the roles there to "ftz-escort" to give them an exclusive role.

Whoops! Live and learn ... I'll dig out the files and upload a revised version shortly.

Post by **Disembodied** » Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:46 pm

I've uploaded a new version of the FTZ OXP and updated the wiki.

Switeck · Post by **Switeck** » Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:20 pm

Code: Select all

[ai.takeAction]: Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 to take action pauseAI: 15.0
[ai.message.receive]: AI escortAI.plist for Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 in state 'CLEAR_STATION' receives message 'NOTHING_FOUND'
...
  [ai.message.receive]: AI escortAI.plist for Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 in state 'CHOOSE_NEW_CAREER' receives message 'ENTER'
  [ai.takeAction]: Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 to take action checkOwnLegalStatus
[ai.message.receive]: AI escortAI.plist for Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 in state 'CHOOSE_NEW_CAREER' receives message 'SELF_MINOR_OFFENDER'
[ai.takeAction]: Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 to take action checkForFullHold
[ai.message.receive]: AI escortAI.plist for Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 in state 'CHOOSE_NEW_CAREER' receives message 'NO_CARGO_BAY'
[ai.takeAction]: Sidewinder Woma Escort 382 to take action switchAITo: route1patrolAI.plist

In your case, the Sidewinder went from failed escort to route1patrolAI.plist script. How high was its bounty value?
And why do/did FTZ v0.13 escorts react differently and choosing a (short-lived) pirate career?

My main "beef" with hostiles at the station was these weren't high-bounty kill-anything-that-moves fugitive pirates...they were low bounty barely-offenders.
'SELF_MINOR_OFFENDER' should probably have them go dock or better yet hyperspace out if capable to clear their offender status.
Attacking anything and everything around the main station is basically suicide.
...Er, well it should be unless you're ridiculously good and/or have a very powerful ship.

Post by **Eric Walch** » Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:21 pm

Disembodied wrote:
I've uploaded a new version of the FTZ OXP and updated the wiki.

You make big advertisements with your FTZ. I just read about FTZ in an magazine. But there it was an abbreviation of Foreign Trade Zone: Commercial zones in the VS that don't obey to US tax rules but are handled as foreign area. (Like the diamond centre in Antwerp)

Post by **Disembodied** » Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:31 pm

Eric Walch wrote:
I just read about FTZ in an magazine. But there it was an abbreviation of Foreign Trade Zone: Commercial zones in the VS that don't obey to US tax rules but are handled as foreign area. (Like the diamond centre in Antwerp)

That is just a happy coincidence ... use of the name "FTZ" should in no way be taken as a comment on my opinion on the deregulation of trade.