Hostiles at the main station in v1.74.2?

[Switeck]

I'm approaching or leaving the main system station in Oolite v1.74.2 on the PC with effectively no OXPs installed (tested that way on purpose) and I'm still seeing offender Kraits and Mambas (seems almost no other kind of ship does this) that seem to attack everyone on sight. Before long they're fugitive status and being chased around and/or killed by police Vipers.

I can say with absolute certainty I did not "drag" them from elsewhere in the system to near the station. Either they come from the station itself OR from nearby on their own.

Neither tech level nor government type seems to eliminate this occurrence.

Now I can understand it semi-rarely happening in an anarchy or multi-government system...but TL >11 rich industrial corporate states? And it happens pretty often -- more than 1 time out of 5.

Is Oolite v1.74.2 just intentionally geared to kill the new players and annoy the vet (taking hits while trying to dock) with this behavior?

[Kaks]

Hmm, that 'effectively no oxp' thing sounds a bit suspicious to me...
Can you show us the oxp list found inside the log?

[Switeck]

Switeck_mod.oxp
Which if you read through has only a:
commodities.plist
keyconfig.plist (that's where I tossed my key list, but not normally there)
shipdata-overrides.plist
shipyard-overrides.plist

and...
Bounty Scanner 2.0 2.00
display-reputation-contract 1.1
display-reputation-passenger 1.1
misjump_analyser 1.1
missile_analyser 1.2
rockHermit_Locator 1.3.3
targetAutolock 1.10
TrafficControl 1.1
Welcome Information Script 1.1

I read through ALL of them and none of them spawn pirate/offender ships.

[Eric Walch]

I'm approaching or leaving the main system station in Oolite v1.74.2 on the PC with effectively no OXPs installed (tested that way on purpose) and I'm still seeing offender Kraits and Mambas (seems almost no other kind of ship does this) that seem to attack everyone on sight. Before long they're fugitive status and being chased around and/or killed by police Vipers.

This is predicted behaviour. Already since at least Oolite 1.65, the pirates had code that should made pirates with full cargo hold jump to the adjacent system and sell their loot at the main station. It just never worked.

However, since 1.74 (or was it since 1.73?) pirates jump out when their hold is full. But only pirates with small holds like the krait and mamba are likely candidates for this. So what you see are pirates trying to sneek in their loot at a main station but are caught doing so by galcop

[DaddyHoggy]

I'm approaching or leaving the main system station in Oolite v1.74.2 on the PC with effectively no OXPs installed (tested that way on purpose) and I'm still seeing offender Kraits and Mambas (seems almost no other kind of ship does this) that seem to attack everyone on sight. Before long they're fugitive status and being chased around and/or killed by police Vipers.

This is predicted behaviour. Already since at least Oolite 1.65, the pirates had code that should made pirates with full cargo hold jump to the adjacent system and sell their loot at the main station. It just never worked.

However, since 1.74 (or was it since 1.73?) pirates jump out when their hold is full. But only pirates with small holds like the krait and mamba are likely candidates for this. So what you see are pirates trying to sneek in their loot at a main station but are caught doing so by galcop

The mamba can't jump can't it?

[Switeck]

And they'd have gotten away with it...if it wasn't for those meddling kids.

I mean they'd have gotten away with it if they weren't coming in shooting.

The cops are only attacking them because they are attacking. Until these barely-offender pirates attack, I've seen Vipers buzzing around (usually only 1 tho) and not messing with them or even heading in their general direction.

I expect traffic around the station, even the occasional offender mixed in. But a Mamba or Krait that gets so near a station and shooting at everything that moves? That's...suicidal-stupid!
They're just good enough that they probably can kill new players -- more from causing panic while docking than actual laser kills.

Maybe an ai script change for the pirates as they near the station to docking only would "fix" the problem?

[Eric Walch]

I expect traffic around the station, even the occasional offender mixed in. But a Mamba or Krait that gets so near a station and shooting at everything that moves? That's...suicidal-stupid!
They're just good enough that they probably can kill new players -- more from causing panic while docking than actual laser kills.

When you want to be absolutely sure, look at their AI. When it are pirates heading for he station, their AI should be route1TraderAI (or traderInterceptAI when in attack mode). In that state they never should start an attack. To check it, target the ship and press shift-H. The ship info should be in your log than.

But they can be the first that firing a shot because traders constantly monitor for hostile ships (a hostile ship is a ship in attack mode and having it as target). But in that case it still was the police that initiated the hostile action.

The mamba can't jump can't it?

Yes, that is wondering me. In principle all ships can jump when having fuel, but mambas start with no fuel so should not jump. Maybe there is still something else going on? But probably the answer is simple: when they can't jump they go to the current main station.

[DaddyHoggy]

In fact - Mambas, Kraits and Geckos - according to Canon (i.e. the Original Elite Trader's Manual) and therefore the EliteWiki these three ships do not have Hyperspace Engines and therefore shouldn't have Jump capability.

Denying them fuel to stop them jumping, just means they can't have injectors either (and as the Mambas and Kraits are also race ships) and that's just silly.

Isn't the jump capability part of the AI? (or more precisely the check on fuel - id of suitable system and the actual jump) Could this be denied with a flag to say "Has hyperspace engine = FALSE" - to kick them back out of this check...

I noticed this ability on Mambas when I encountered DaddyHoggy's Mamba at Diso (the only system he's supposed to be) - but because he/I (??) was flying my race spec Magma Racing Team Mamba - that ship has injectors, so of course fuel and so of course it jumped out while I was trailing it trying to get a screenie!

I thought this was just a faff with Cdr McL's fab personality oxp - I didn't realise it was indicative of what I consider a fault with the core of the game (after all - doesn't illicit unlock allow the purchase of ships that don't have hyperspace engines and therefore shouldn't be purchaseable, because you can't use them to initiate a jump, only fall through someone elses wormhole...)

[Smivs]

One solution to this is to give them small fuel tanks, say 1 Light Year.
This is not enough to fuel a jump between even the closest of systems but gives ample fuel for several minutes under fuel injectors.

[DaddyHoggy]

One solution to this is to give them small fuel tanks, say 1 Light Year.
This is not enough to fuel a jump between even the closest of systems but gives ample fuel for several minutes under fuel injectors.

Apart from the systems closer than 1ly of course...

(A variation of the standard AI specifically for non-hyperspace-capable ships - would be nicer)

[Smivs]

Apart from the systems closer than 1ly of course...

Are there any? That's so close you could walk!

[DaddyHoggy]

The devs have spent quite a lot of time unpicking the code for selecting systems for systems that overlap (0 ly between them) - there aren't many, but there are some. (I think there are also some systems where there is only a 0.6ly gap)

[Switeck]

When it are pirates heading for he station, their AI should be route1TraderAI (or traderInterceptAI when in attack mode). In that state they never should start an attack. To check it, target the ship and press shift-H. The ship info should be in your log than.

But they can be the first that firing a shot because traders constantly monitor for hostile ships (a hostile ship is a ship in attack mode and having it as target). But in that case it still was the police that initiated the hostile action.

I think the station may be female/feminine like most of Earth's ocean ships.

These Kraits/Mambas are definitely initiating the attack on me. I wouldn't even know they're "hostile" otherwise, they'd just be another nearly-ignored yellow dot on radar.

Whether they have been previously fired on before I arrive on the scene...in some cases it would have to be considerably prior (more than 3 minutes earlier) and they have killed the witnesses, as they come on a vector from "empty space" towards the station with nothing behind them.

[Frame]

Apart from the systems closer than 1ly of course...

Are there any? That's so close you could walk!

oh

a light year is 9,460,730,472,580.8 km so Lets presume you would only need to go half that distance.. with an average walking speed of 5 kmh.

it would only take you 107925284,88 years..

Cheers Frame...

[Commander McLane]

Apart from the systems closer than 1ly of course...

Are there any? That's so close you could walk!

oh

a light year is 9,460,730,472,580.8 km so Lets presume you would only need to go half that distance.. with an average walking speed of 5 kmh.

it would only take you 107925284,88 years..

Cheers Frame...

He was probably speaking figuratively.