speed of Cobra mk 3 + other wonderings

Zieman · Post by **Zieman** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:18 pm

I'm a relative newcomer in these boards, so I don't know if this issue has been discussed in past.

The issue is of course the excess top speed of standard Cobra mk 3.

I don't understand why its upped to 0.35 LM from the original 0.30 - just can't find any other reason than to give the player an edge.

Has there been any discussion about this in past, or has the speed just been 0.35 LM from the very beginning?

What I know is that Commodore 64 version (and presumably other 8-bit versions too) had also the player ship's top speed as 0.30 LM, just as the Observer's Guide to Ships in Service states.

Other Mk 3s seemed slower, and I think that's because they never "redlined", they just flew at around 0.26 (keeping the velocity indicator yellow).

On the other hand, Mambas and police Vipers at 0.32 were faster than the player. Most noticeable this was when you repeatedly hauled illegal goods from station to station (being Offender continuously), you got police escort which you couldn't outrun, in fact the police gradually overtook you (as it should be, them being slightly faster).

And Thargoids then...

Observer's Guide to Ships in Service says their maximum velocity is 0.20 LM. I don't remember how it appeared in C64 version, might be that you could run away from Thargoids - have to check it out once I visit my parents' house next time.

What I remember for certain is that Thargoids did survive an Energy Bomb blast. This is not the case in Oolite, so again I suggest toning down the EB - 400 points of damage should be enough so that only Anaconda, Constrictor and Thargoid Warship of the original set survive the blast (others may survive if they happen to have 'Shield Boosters' or 'Shield Enhancement' installed).

Switeck · Post by **Switeck** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:48 pm

Most of the NPC Cobra 3's have a top speed of 0.3 or 0.32 LM. So even NPC Cobra 3's aren't as fast as the player's ship.
There is a Viper type in Oolite that's about 0.52 LM, but even the regular ones use witchfuel injectors a lot.
Oolite Thargoids are ridiculously fast for their size. They don't really need to be. Their own Thargons are slower. If you're attacked by a bunch, they're probably going to hammer you before you get away unless you use injectors yourself.

Energy Bombs definitely need toning down in damage. It should be great for cleaning out oversized hordes of little stuff, but not kill destroy the tougher ships. Fresh ships I'd expect should survive an E-bomb are Asps, Anacondas, Boas, Boa 2s, Thargoids, maybe Pythons, and maybe even Cobra 3's -- just barely. I don't know how to edit Energy Bomb damage from an OXP, or it'd already be in my mod.

Commander Smivs · Post by **Smivs** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:23 pm

On the subject of speed, I assume the top speed is the ship's maximum speed under full power. You can increase this speed substantially with fuel injectors, but what do Injectors do by way of increasing the speed.
Do they double, triple the speed or what? And does it vary from ship to ship?
I ask because some (Asps and FerDeLances spring to mind) seem disproportionately fast under Injectors.

Another point is, what powers the ship on 'Normal' drive? When you refuel it's witch-fuel you buy, for the jump engines and use in the injectors. You never have to get 'Normal' fuel, but the ship just keeps on going, forever it seems. How does that work?

Post by **Kaks** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:33 pm

For the phisics behind it, handwavium will do. Disembodied wrote a beautiful explanation about it. And injectors are in proportion to the ship's maximum speed.

Post by **Disembodied** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:05 pm

One important difference between Oolite and Elite is that – unless I'm remembering this completely wrong – in Elite, you only ever met ships that were travelling out from the planet to the witchpoint. I remember thinking that it was a bit odd: where were these ships going? The result was that, when you met another ship, you were going in different directions and you weren't masslocked for all that long.

Oolite is more realistic: you meet some ships working their way outwards (bounty hunters and cops, mostly) but the traders you encounter are all flying in towards the station, just like you. And unlike Elite, Oolite remembers where everything is: if a ship goes off your scanner, it doesn't just vanish from the universe. So you have to be able to overhaul other ships on an inbound course, or you're going to find yourself stuck there. This is especially true for new pilots, who don't have injectors to help them overtake. I think the extra speed boost for the player Cobra III is just a (fairly) transparent aid to better gameplay.

Commander McLane · Post by **Commander McLane** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:43 pm

My memories disagree with Disembodied. I think in C64- and Atari-Elite all traders you met (= which were randomly created in the vicinity of your scanner) were inbound. So you had to slowly overtake them, which was possible, because the Cobbie was the fastest trader, in order to get a free route again. Which was effectively impossible, because while you still were overtaking one trader, another one was randomly created. At least this is how I remember it.

As far as the original question about the Cobbie's speed is concerned, I am not sure. Perhaps there was a version of Elite where it had 0.35LM, and aegidian chose this version as his point of reference?

I am, however, absolutely certain that Thargoids (and one of the pirate ships, probably the Asp), were faster than the player in C64- and Atari-Elite. I know because I usually pulled a Monty Python and fought with my rear laser while running away from my attackers. This gave me an advantage over "ordinary" pirates, because I could stay out of their reach at will by adjusting my own speed. But not with Thargoids and the other fast pirate ship. I always had to make sure to kill them first, because they were faster than me and could close in, even when I ran away at top speed.

Switeck · Post by **Switeck** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:53 pm

In the C-64 Elite, if the Cobra 3 moved at 0.3 LM the Thargoids only needed to be 0.32 LM or faster and they'd close on you.

Commander Smivs · Post by **Smivs** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:02 pm

You know, before I read this thread I had never noticed that NPC ships had different speeds to player versions

I am from the school of thought that says like ships should be equivalent ie a Cobra should have the same performance whether it be a player, trader, pirate or whatever.
As I am shortly going to be releasing Version2 of Smivs'ShipSet, I have started another thread here to gauge opinion on this subject via a Poll. This will give me the option of balancing all like-ships when I release the ShipSet, if that's what people want.
Go do your Democratic Duty

Wiki pages · Post by **Thargoid** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:03 pm

Do we really need this discussion across three threads each in different fora? Whilst the topic is an interesting one, it's a little difficult to follow being so spread out...

Switeck · Post by **Switeck** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:42 am

My mod also dealt with this issue by raising the speeds of the NPC Cobra 3's to 0.32 or 0.35 LM (for the more deadly one.)