Smivs' Shipset OXP - Development thread.

[Disembodied]

It's difficult to tell from a static screenshot, but one concern I'd have with the Moray skin is that maybe the shading is too subtle. It looks good in the screenshot, but during gameplay ships are very often off in the distance and/or bobbing and weaving around. Is there a danger that maybe this will just look like a uniform green paintjob when it's on the move? What would it look like if you made it bolder, with the scales standing out more? It would of course be a matter of making a design that works at a distance, and isn't wildly OTT up close ...

[Smivs]

It's difficult to tell from a static screenshot, but one concern I'd have with the Moray skin is that maybe the shading is too subtle. It looks good in the screenshot, but during gameplay ships are very often off in the distance and/or bobbing and weaving around. Is there a danger that maybe this will just look like a uniform green paintjob when it's on the move? What would it look like if you made it bolder, with the scales standing out more? It would of course be a matter of making a design that works at a distance, and isn't wildly OTT up close ...

This is a problem with most of the ships. Below is a composite I've made up of a Moray (trying to run away!) from various distances, and as you'll see the pattern does show to various degrees at different distances, but even when quite close the pattern is still fairly indistinct, even when allowing for jpeg compression. I think you might be right in suggesting a slightly bolder pattern...this is something I'll look at over the next couple of days. Thanks.

[JensAyton]

A subtle normal map and a slightly shiny surface would give you a better-looking scale effect, which would also be more noticeable at a distance.

[Smivs]

The ShipSet is now almost complete, with just a bit of fine-tuning to be done to a couple of the textures. I have written the shipdata.plist and am currently testing it for bugs/problems...so far so good.
There are a couple of things I'd like some advice on, however.
I have done the Textures in 2048x2048px to get the detail and definition required, but as can be seen from this thread, and a problem ZbondZbond had with my Boa Clipper, some graphics cards can't handle these.
Also the total size of the Textures folder only (not the whole OXP) is now a whopping 26.1Mb.
So I have three options as I see it.
1) Release the OXP as it is knowing that it's going to take like forever to download and will only be useable by some members.
2) Reduce the textures to 512x512 (with minimal compression which carries some noticeable sacrifices in terms of image quality but halves the size of the files).
or
3) Release two versions, a standard-def (512x512) version and a high-def (2048x2048) version. Would this over-complicate things?
Any advice, help or suggestions would be very gratefully received.

[Svengali]

I think it depends on your personal preferences.

If you want to make it possible for all (or at least most) users to play with your oxp keep it as small as possible. As Ahruman has already said 512x512 = 1MB in memory. This is sometimes trippled, based on your system and drivers. So a entity with diffuseMap (2048x2048) plus fxMap (1024x1024) can be 60MB in memory. I've even seen oxp ships that have taken >100MB.

And the other thing is that we can't see a oxp without thinking about other oxps as well. Games are a timecritical thing and if it gets too slow or reaches memory limits on some systems users will throw oxps out or even kick the game at all. On the other side it's a good thing to have eye-candies and this will attract even more users, so in the end (and after too much words) it's your decision to find the balance that matches your preferences.

I for one am often going a bit (hehe) too far in scaling down textures in my oxps, but for me it feels better to keep the ressources in Oolite & my traffic down .-)

So whatever you're doing - keep up your nice work.

PS: And the interesting question is now - is it faster to load 3 smaller textures (e.g.512x512) instead of 1 bigger map (e.g.1024x1024)?

[JensAyton]

PS: And the interesting question is now - is it faster to load 3 smaller textures (e.g.512x512) instead of 1 bigger map (e.g.1024x1024)?

Almost certainly slower for disk access reasons. (There are other factors that complicate it, but disk access tends to dominate most things.)

[Svengali]

PS: And the interesting question is now - is it faster to load 3 smaller textures (e.g.512x512) instead of 1 bigger map (e.g.1024x1024)?

Almost certainly slower for disk access reasons. (There are other factors that complicate it, but disk access tends to dominate most things.)

Thanks Ahruman for this info.

[Smivs]

Progress report

Things are progressing really well, and final release plans are coming together now.
The OXP will be released as two parts, a main ship set and a supplimentary set.
There will be two editions of the main shipset, a Standard Definition edition using 512x512px textures suitable for all computers, and a High Definition edition (2048x2048px textures) for gamers with high-end graphics cards.
This set, known as Smivs' Shipset, will include all the principle ships:-
Adder
Asp Mk II
Anaconda
Boa
Boa Class Cruiser
Cobra Mk I (Standard, Miner and Pirate versions)
Cobra Mk III (Standard, Alternative and Pirate versions)
Ferdelance (Standard and Pirate versions)
Gecko
Krait
Mamba (Two versions)
Moray (Starboat and Medical Boat)
Python (Standard, Trader and Pirate versions)
Sidewinder
Thargoids (Robot Fighter and Warship)
Viper (Viper and Viper Interceptor versions)



The supplement, known as Smivs' Shipset Suppliment will be available in Standard Definition only, and will feature the minor ships and accessories:-
Constrictor
Orbital Shuttle
Transporter (Transporter and Mining Transporter versions)
Worm (Worm and Worm Miner)
Coriolis Station
Dodecahedron Station
Icosahedron Station
Escape Capsule
Cargo Pod
Missile
Q-bomb
Metal Fragment
Asteroid (plus boulder and splinter)

The thinking behind all this has been influenced by file sizes, and user choice.
The HD edition of the Shipset weighs in at a hefty 29.5Mb unzipped, and a 'full' version containing everything would be too big to contemplate. By splitting the Shipset from the Supplementals, the files are much more manageable, and leaves users the option of just using the Shipset alone, which still adds a lot to the game.
So I think that this arrangement, although a bit complex, is the best. Users can download just what they want, either just the main Shipset in either Standard or High Definition, or the Shipset plus Supplement to get the whole package.

The whole thing is currently under testing, and JazHaz and Zbond-Zbond are kindly checking the SD and HD editions on their computers to check the situation with graphics cards as both have reported problems with 2048 textures in the past. I'm hoping they will confirm the need for both SD and HD editions.

There's still a bit to do before release. I am still working on the textures for the Stations, and will need to prepare screenshots of everything for the Wiki entries (lots of 'Custom Paintjobs'). I plan to do lots of in-game testing over the next week or so, which I'm looking forward to as I haven't actually played much recently, and I'm within 100 of being 'Deadly', too!
Also I have a holiday coming up in about a week's time.
I've therefore set a provisional release date of Friday 21st May. Fingers Crossed!

[Yrol_Denjeah]

That sounds quite promising °smiles°

°grabs operaglasses° ah... there's the butt!

But you plan to release the stations as addonpack with less big
textures. I could imagine, as those are kinda the biggest things
in vaniklla-oolite ( given one only uses your two OXPs )
and as we get quite close to them when docking,
would it not be more useful to include them in the big pack
with the larger sized textures to ensure that not so
much quality is lost because of scaling?

Oh and happy hunting down those 100! °grins°

[Smivs]

But you plan to release the stations as addonpack with less big
textures. I could imagine, as those are kinda the biggest things
in vaniklla-oolite ( given one only uses your two OXPs )
and as we get quite close to them when docking,
would it not be more useful to include them in the big pack
with the larger sized textures to ensure that not so
much quality is lost because of scaling?

I'm actually working on these at the moment, and so far they seem to look OK in Standard Def. Like the ships, they're fairly minimalist, but I'll see how the final versions look. It's all open to change at the moment!
Below is a quick screenshot I've just done, showing a HD Python launching from the (current) SD Coriolis station. The metal-plate finish is quite distinct, as is the Arc. The detailing on the side will always look a bit fuzzy from that angle, it's fine head-on. What do you think

Smivs.

[Yrol_Denjeah]

True Looks all good.

I forgot the smearing effect if one does not look head onto them
and as they constantly rotate, thats mostly the case.

It is always more clear ( in understanding ) if one actually "sees"
something instead of just talking about it.

[JazHaz]

The whole thing is currently under testing, and JazHaz and Zbond-Zbond are kindly checking the SD and HD editions on their computers to check the situation with graphics cards as both have reported problems with 2048 textures in the past. I'm hoping they will confirm the need for both SD and HD editions.

Unfortunately since grabbing the archives, I've not had a chance to even install them. RL has been getting in the way. Plus I'm a massive snooker fan, and the world championships are on at the moment...!

[Lestradae]

Smivs, I hope you are doing a version that will be able to run parallel with other shipsets, and not overwrite everything, too?

I at least would really like that - running Sung's Shady, Neolite, Griff, ADCK and DeepSpace versions side by side I'd look forwards to adding your option to the pack without pulling out one or more of the others

[Smivs]

JazHaz, no worries, Zbond-Zbond has had a look and confirmed that both SD and HD editions are justified. HD didn't work on his rig (as expected) but SD was fine and looked good.

Lestradae, I've only done a simple shipdata.plist with 'material' attributes to put my textures over the original models, so it shouldn't overwrite anything else (I hope). I have DeepSpace Ships on my computer although I have moved it out of AddOns for the moment while I'm trialling my shipsets, but I will re-instate it sometime to check they both work. It is not my intention to over-ride other OXPs.
If anyone knows of specific steps I can take to avoid over-rides, please let me know.

[JazHaz]

JazHaz, no worries, Zbond-Zbond has had a look and confirmed that both SD and HD editions are justified. HD didn't work on his rig (as expected) but SD was fine and looked good.

Actually just testing the HD version now.... Will report back later...