cloaked ships don't masslock you

Frame · Post by **Frame** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:49 am

Commander McLane wrote:
There is also the question whether an emulator really fully emulates also this aspect of C64 Elite...

It is a a "really fully emulation of this aspect of C64 Elite", it even got the load screen, (when loading a cracked version), and this one got limited train ability..

I got unlimited missiles for instance.. no laser overheat.. etc..

but unfortunately credits cannot be modified...

this emulator also comes with video capture abilities...
i even get a competition number when saving my commander

Frame · Post by **Frame** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:22 pm

30000 credits

16000 to go...

uh whats that, infinite energy bombs...

I think once I got 46000 credits, riedquat residents are going to see alot of fireworks in space

Edit: I made a profound discovery

Thargoids are invulnerable to energy bombs

it merely
stuns them a bit, then they attack again

tharglets go boom easy though

more odd things, I can scoop alien items (tharglets) even when my hold
is full..

however, i cannot scoop ordinary cargo pods when hold is full

another missed feature ?

Cheers Frame..

Website · Post by **DaddyHoggy** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:35 pm

On the C64 - Thargoids were always E-bomb proof - that was the point!

I've still got a working C64 and the original Firebird Boxed cassette version of Elite - if only I had one of my ***ELITE*** ranked saved files from a commander in Galaxy eight!

Frame · Post by **Frame** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:45 pm

DaddyHoggy wrote:
On the C64 - Thargoids were always E-bomb proof - that was the point!

I've still got a working C64 and the original Firebird Boxed cassette version of Elite - if only I had one of my ***ELITE*** ranked saved files from a commander in Galaxy eight!

hmm cool..

I can provide you with a d64 file though, as I have made it to galaxy chart 8.. about to jump back to 1, and see if the stealth ship greats me...

Cheers Frame...

Frame · Post by **Frame** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:05 am

so i crossed into gal 1 from gal 8, so far no stealth ship..

but this also happened to me when i tried to get the stealth ship to come back..

I'm afraid that it might be a requirement to have a pulse laser as front laser like I did when I ran into it..

Therefore could not destroy it, however, couldn't crash into it either,but it had a habit of diving just below me upon attacking, at which moment I launched a missile at it... that somehow despite it being stealth could lock onto it... The missile exploded and I could not relocate the stealth ship..

It should be known that the thing also carried an ECM system that triggerd prretty fast after a launch... however not instantaneously like in Oolite.

keeping up the seacrh...

Cheers Frame.-.-.

Frame · Post by **Frame** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:10 pm

I started looking around for insight into the machine code of the Elite game instead.. interestingly I found the digram and it matches Oolites Perfectly as it it should..

But.. I also found the vertex data

..

This last ship is the cougar, however, not in the form we see it on the wiki.. I cannot recall that ship, but it may have looked like that in another version of Elite..

however, I'm in the process of recreating the Cougar in 3d max.. interestingly its just like normal day dat file reading however with Hex numbers that I have to convert each and every one first..

Cheers Frame...

the data is like this..

Code: Select all

 COUGAR
 &00
 &14,&0E
 vertices
 &00,&05,&43
 -&14,&00,&28
 -&28,&00,-&28
 &00,&0E,-&28
 &00,-&0E,-&28
 &14,&00,&28
 &28,&00,-&28
 -&24,&00,&38
 -&3C,&00,-&14
 &24,&00,&38
 &3C,&00,-&14
 &00,&07,&23
 &00,&08,&19
 -&0C,&02,&2D
 &0C,&02,&2D
 -&0A,&06,-&28
 -&0A,-&06,-&28
 &0A,-&06,-&28
 &0A,&06,-&28
 &00,&00,-&28
 faces
 &01,-&10,&2E,&04,4,3,0,1,2
 &01,-&10,-&2E,&04,3,4,1,2
 &03,&00,-&1B,&05,4,4,5,0,1
 &02,&10,-&2E,&04,3,6,5,4
 &02,&10,&2E,&04,4,0,3,6,5
 &05,&00,&00,-&A0,4,6,4,2,3
 &06,-&10,-&2E,&04,4,1,2,8,7
 &06,-&10,&2E,&04,4,1,2,8,7
 &06,&10,&2E,&04,4,5,6,10,9
 &06,&10,-&2E,&04,4,5,6,10,9
 &08,&00,&00,-&A0,3,15,16,19
 &08,&00,&00,-&A0,3,19,18,17
 &09,-&10,&2E,&04,3,11,13,12
 &09,&10,&2E,&04,3,11,14,12

Edit now that i look at it, i can see some of faces are quads, not triangles..

Post by **Micha** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:48 pm

Kaks wrote:
Personally I'd go with the theory that mass lock is dependent on huge mass and/or quirium, which still disqualifies asteroids (but not rock hermits).

My preference is for mass-lock to lock on mass, as the name implies and as happened on the C64 version of Elite. Hence my personal copy of Oolite also mass-locks on anything larger than a certain size.

My preference for cloaked ships is to behave normally as far as mass-locking goes.

Frame · Post by **Frame** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:03 pm

regarding mass lock..

Elite c 64 is a bit different, it does not mass lock when you for example is
pointing away from sun/planet and press J..

something similar should be possible with Oolite though..

it would make it easier to sun skim and stay in the same system, and quickly avoid cabin overheat, which also was why getting rid of the pest was easier, than it is now...

regarding the cougar, I got a vertex setup in oolite, with the faces not correctly attached because of Elites different way of drawing these.

however the shape of the cougar is painfully clear to me now,some minor details like the cockpit is missing though...

Code: Select all

 *   *   *
**  ***  **
** ***** **
** ***** **
***********
 *********

Website · Post by **DaddyHoggy** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:14 pm

Frame wrote:
regarding mass lock..

Elite c 64 is a bit different, it does not mass lock when you for example is
pointing away from sun/planet and press J..

something similar should be possible with Oolite though..

it would make it easier to sun skim and stay in the same system, and quickly avoid cabin overheat, which also was why getting rid of the pest was easier, than it is now...

regarding the cougar, I got a vertex setup in oolite, with the faces not correctly attached because of Elites different way of drawing these.

however the shape of the cougar is painfully clear to me now,some minor details like the cockpit is missing though...
Code: Select all
 *   *   *
**  ***  **
** ***** **
** ***** **
***********
 *********

Hmmm, that's a familiar shape now you've drawn it...

If you look here - there is mention (but no image) of the Cougar - and I had a friend that had the BBC Master version - and that is the ship I remember as it was described on the start screen.

(Note Oolite (from 2005) gets a mention on the same page!)

http://www.8bs.com/submit/subelite.htm

Frame · Post by **Frame** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:19 pm

thanks i can now do better..

due to the fact that oolite draws in a different way than present day OpenGl and DirectX it got more faces than the original, namely 18 instead of 14..

anyway without futher due, here it is, the Elite C64 Cougar

click thumb for orthographic blueprint

Edit

Perspective view

Cheers Frame...

Gimi · Post by **Gimi** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:25 pm

I'm having a deja vu here. Have seen this somewhere before.

But where?

Website · Post by **DaddyHoggy** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:26 pm

Or a page here - which allows you to edit the original game to jump to the "Destroy Cougar mission".

The image of the cougar comes back to me (from 20yrs ago) - the ship looked like a letter W - and the outer prongs I don't remember coming to a point - I remember a centre line at the tips - so the ship was quite "thick" when looking at it from the front - I wish I could draw and I'd sketch and scan!
http://home.flash.net/~rayearle/Efiles/Elite.html

Just seen your pics - right shape but the prongs did not come to a point in the height axis (sorry, difficult to explain!)

Frame · Post by **Frame** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:36 pm

the prongs are flat, I think this is a poly reducing effort, and they do end in a point... I traced them from vertex to vertex, and they only consist of 3 lines, meaning they have to end in a point...

The vertex data is exact, while the faces are slightly modified to accomodate for the diffrences in rendering wireframes only, where you can get away with such things as incorrect geometry..

something you cannot in an application such as 3dmax..

I'll make a quick Demo OXP out of it.

Gimi · Post by **Gimi** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:47 pm

Found on Ian Bells Elite page:

Ship: COUGAR
Size: 70
Energy: 252
Speed: 40
Max Missiles Carried: 4m
Max Loot: 3t
Bounty CR: 0.0
NES Kill Value (Hex): 10.00

http://www.iancgbell.clara.net/elite/faq.htm#A23

Edit: Some more info:

From the: Alt.Fan.Elite Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/bbc/doc/games/EliteFAQ.htm

There are two additional ships; the Cougar is found in Master and Tube
(and possibly Master Compact) versions of Elite as a very rare encounter,
and as a reinforcement for the cloaked Asp in the 16 bit mission set.

Would be interesting to see what the Cougar looks like in these other versions.

Commander McLane · Post by **Commander McLane** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:11 pm

There seems to be a lot of contradicting information about the Cougar. Not only on the websites linked to by DH, but also previously on this very board. Here's an old thread, unfortunately the pictures don't exist anymore:

https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.ph ... ght=cougar