Ship Design All Wrong?

[Darkbee]

Have we got ship design all wrong? I use "we" loosely, but essentially it seems that we instinctively want to produce Spaceships that somewhat resemble Earth aircraft with high regard for aerodynamics. However, it would seem that aerodynamics are completely irrelevant in the vacuum of Space. This begs this question of what should ships look like? What would make sense from a design perspective? Of course, we also have to consider aesthetics (what looks pleasing to the eye), too often radical designs are met with derision because they don't fit well with our ideas/conventions/doctrine about what something should be/look like.

If a Space ship were to be designed though, who's soul purpose was for in-Space flight (no inconvenient planetary atmospherics to contend with), what would be the "best" design? I suppose that means we have to define "best"... *sigh*. Best would probably mean in terms of cost (cheap to build), function (it serves it's purpose without any unecessaries) and... (other practical stuff) ?

I honestly can't think of much criteria once you throw out aerodynamics other than it should look nice, and you probably want good views from various parts of the Ship. (although then we get into the argument of does a Space ship have windows?)

But there must be more criteria than that, since a Giraffe-shaped Spaceship would look nice and have good views but it probably wouldn't be the "best" design.

I guess that brings up hull integrity. It would make sense that you would want to choose a shape for your ship that would give optimum hull integrity. What would that be? A prefect sphere? A Cylinder? A tube (hollow cylinder)?

That's enough rambling... just something that I was thinking about. Thoughts?

[edit]Maybe that's why little green men have "flying saucers"! We have our answer!

[Disembodied]

I think it depends on the kinds of physics you're using. In some of them, "aerodynamics" (or at least streamlining) can be very important. If you're travelling at 99% of lightspeed, then the interstellar medium – thin though it may be – is going to be something you'll want to tunnel through with as little resistance as possible – e.g. the kilometres-long ice-coated needle-shaped lighthuggers of Alastair Reynolds' fiction. This is using current physics and astronomy (apart from having an engine that can push a ship to 99% of c).

If you're heading off into the wilder fringes of FTL, wormholes etc., then who is to say what design features might be necessary? You might want to have your ships long and thin because that way you get a better efficiency out of your subspace traction manifolds: or maybe ships would be flying doughnuts, channeling the spacetime flux through their central holes ... you makes up your physics and you takes your pick!

[Cmd. Cheyd]

Is the ship build inside an atmosphere, or was it constructed already in orbit?
Is it going to perform atmospheric reentry anywhere, or purely stay in the black?
Is it encountering Newtonian flight, or Oolite-flight mechanics?
Are there shields / deflectors capable of handling dust and other particulates, or does it need to be handled at a more mechanical level?

[maik]

It also depends on the role-- a large trade vessel might want a lot of easily accessible space while a bounty hunter might want to present a very small silhouette to be harder to hit.

[Smivs]

This is a really good subject, and one I spend a bit of time thinking about.
There is a good case for the sphere...it has a large volume/surface area ratio, and would have excellent structural integrity. It should also be highly manueovreable.
Although as you say, it could be any shape you want really.
Hell, it could even have breasts if you're that way inclined!

[Thargoid]

• Are you wanting artifical gravity by conventional means (rotation-based) or by handwavium means?
• Are there elements that need to be kept apart (eg nuclear reaction engines and the crew).
• Is it powered by solar sails or other large structures that need support?
• Why does it have to look nice?
• Does it have to dock or interact with any other ship?

And the list probably goes on further. I must admit I have had similar thoughts in the past, thinking of larger ships like the Marine one from Aliens. Would like to see something like that in Oolite and done properly (ie by someone with more skill than I have in these things).[/color]

[Darkbee]

I was starting my thinking in Oolite but then expanding it to general RL™ terms. If your spaceship is never entering any kind of atmosphere then there's no reason that a giant brick wouldn't be the simplest design (I over simplify of course, but you get the point).

Take the US Shuttle: It looks like a plane, BUT for good reason because upon reentry it sort of has to perform like plane, and the underside needs to act as protective heat-shield so its design serves its purpose. If it didn't have to do that then its design would be redundant, other than looking cool (IMO).

I'm not looking for right or wrong answers here, just thoughts. Sometimes it's good to throw away things (read: ideas) that you think you need and start afresh.

[DaddyHoggy]

EE Doc Smith's ship were usually described as sphere's or tear drop in shape but Chris Foss who drew many of the covers had other, more traditional ideas and usually drew across between triangular shaped ships and oil rigs.

[Smivs]

Also worth a mention is the one non-atmospheric space ship man has built to date...the LEM (Apollo lunar lander).
Designed for a purpose, and unlike anything else before or since.

[Cody]

As a fictional, intra-system ship, I still have a soft spot for Discovery One… simple, functional design, but somehow elegant.

[ClymAngus]

I found this the other day it's a little more 70-80's big ship like. Might be worth a model or two.

http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/Spaceships/index.html

Of course the problem is will it fit in the post box of a slot? It's a shape that lends itself to wings and a long body.

I'll see if I can find some nice designs on the site.

[Switeck]

The docking bays on space stations set a few limitations to ship design.

Unless you're going superhuge, there's little reason to make a ship that cannot (easily!) dock with ordinary space stations...and that means long needles or bricks. The Commies! OXP contains the ultimate ugly example of this with the Worker's Commuter -- a long brick. By all rights, those ugly things should hold considerably more than an Anaconda.

Going the other way, fighters would want a small a head-on or tail-on silhouette to be harder to hit. I'm presuming of course they are either attacking or fleeing from whatever's shooting at it -- if they're in a crossfire from the sides, they're "doing it wrong"(tm).

The station docking size limitation would create some demand for larger docking bays on stations (with the SuperHub being about the ultimate answer for that) both for additional margin-of-error for docking and allowing for much larger ships. Behemoths have to dock somewhere or they get lonely too!

[ClymAngus]

I think this all comes down to (the million dollar question and one that we've been debating with as much vigor as the feet or metre issue) how far away from elite do you want to take the game.

As we all know the original ships were designed for efficiency. We are blessed by not having this constraint. So does this give us the largess to start talking in terms of "aerodynamics are completely irrelevant in the vacuum of Space" when there is so much out of wack physics wise?

Should we be restricted by the historical imperative of the game to keep it simple do it well?

I say can we not have our cakes and eat them too? I like the idea of many different ships. I do like the idea of massive run way carrier ships. So make something that looks like tetras had a one night stand with defender. Anything but everything.

http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/Pics/SFS/SFS-202.jpg
http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/Pics/SFS/SFS-203.jpg
http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/Pics/SFS/SFS-240.jpg
http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/Pics/SFS/SFS-240.jpg
http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/Pics/SFS/SFS-423.jpg
http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/Pics/SFS/SFS-341.jpg
http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/Pics/SFS/SFS-930.jpg

Ugly enough for you?

[Micha]

Behemoths have to dock somewhere or they get lonely too!

I think in the original novella/manual it was hinted at that larger ships use smaller ships (such as Worms) to load/unload.

Should be scriptable (for atmosphere, not to support huge player-ships) - large ship enters station Aegis and enters a holding position, then smaller shuttles ferry back & forth to the station.

Besides which, the concept of Elite only really makes sense (to me anyway) if there are no larger ships (maybe there's a mass/size-limit to witchspace jumps or similar Handwavium) - otherwise what would be the point of the small(ish) traders?

How many people have you heard of that fill a yacht with a couple hundred KG of goods and ferry them to China? A few centuries back, perhaps, but not in the current days of cheap bulk haulage.

[maik]

How many people have you heard of that fill a yacht with a couple hundred KG of goods and ferry them to China? A few centuries back, perhaps, but not in the current days of cheap bulk haulage.

Look no further than at all the small mom and pop courier services. Or all the import/export/trading firms. Heck, even truck drivers typically own their one truck, at least over here. There definitely is a place for all those businesses.