HUD BackGround Images (opaque), Brackets

[JeffBTX]

I've sifted through the Suggestion Box and Testing and Bug reports... waded through the SVN changes...

I know that there have have been changes to HUD and background image code for 1.74, and that more are "MNSR".

(could someone explain this for me... so that I don't devote a thread to it... "MNSR" at a guess is something-something-StableRelease. What is "MNSR"? Or is it MSNR, I forget... Thanks)

I don't THINK that this has been mentioned, if it has I apologize.

(1.73.4) When using background image(s) for a custom HUD;
Even if the PNGs are opaque (alpha 1.00 in the hud.plist); and they have been created with a proper alpha channel for the show-through parts... dashboards, instrument panels, even struts... this DOES work as it is supposed to, and the results can look good if one is careful with sizing and placement.

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(wordy... but useful for understanding... skip to "bottom line" if you are impatient...)

I made a beautiful 3D cockpit with a solid, opaque dashboard. It looked like an actual little spaceship (a REAL one) was living inside my 1680x1050 22 inch LCD monitor. This was created with a RayTracer... PERFECTLY photorealistic.

3D instrument panel screens (little boxes, they look sort of like little CRT monitors attached to the dashboard).

STRUTS even. I made sure that no text was obscured... the highest edges of the dashboard only went to pixel = y = 820 (top edge of 1680x1050 screen = pixel = y = 0). The Lowest characters / text in ANY screen or in space come down to (at most) pixel = y = 816.

The struts on the sides did not seriously obscure the view, yet imposed realism. Generally they started the lower left and right corners (but "in front of" the dashboard), angle inwards, but then made interesting angles as they extended towards the top of the screen. The middle / top of the struts were open. They did not obscure ANY text on ANY of the screens, or in space.

Shading and lighting effects and shadows. Phong, specular, and reflections. Metals that looked like "brushed aluminum", and glossy paint.

Partway through developing this I spotted the problem (see "Bottom Line"). I finished it anyway... then started more playing with the code in hud.plist. Obviously it is in the engine. Project scrapped (for 1.73.4... maybe will try again with 1.74+ ... ). "Thats Life". No Big Deal. Back to using a "Super Dooper Customized fully-projected HUD" with no background images.
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Bottom Line: The trouble is that the targeting brackets and target info (text) for targeted objects are projected ON TOP of opaque (or semitransparent) background images. This is the only thing (that I can spot) that does this.

It looks like a pair of bright green brackets are free floating around the cockpit... with text ("GalCop Viper", "Corolis Station", "Space Clown (offensive)" ... ).

So the HUD brackets and text (targeted object) code SHOULD be changed so that the brackets and text have the same display priority as everything else... BEHIND images.

-Thank You For Your Consideration (TYFYC). Don't mind the Space Clowns, and don't forget my question on MNSR. LOL, TGIF.

[Cmd. Cheyd]

MNSR = Mythical Next Stable Release. Stability in this context is referring to feature stability, not "it-won't-crash-on-you" stable.

[JeffBTX]

"TY, TYVM" - (Elvis Presley)

[JazHaz]

This new HUD does sound good. Can you put up a screenshot please?

[JeffBTX]

Sorry, I scrapped it (POVRay source files, rendered images) when I decided that "1.73.4 wasn't ready for my hud". All I kept was a small textfile on how to make widescreen HUDs; how to make the correction factor.

[DaddyHoggy]

Sorry, I scrapped it (POVRay source files, rendered images) when I decided that "1.73.4 wasn't ready for my hud". All I kept was a small textfile on how to make widescreen HUDs; how to make the correction factor.

No that's not how it works - you show a "if only" screenie, everybody goes "wow!" and clamours for the functionality to be included in the base code...

Oh well...

[JeffBTX]

I might still do it (again), because I had more ideas after the first two (using this concept) were built.

I just finished optimizing the "projection only" hud for my game (like the default hud, everything is just repositioned and resized); which gets me through until I want to tackle the idea again. Whats different than the default / vanilla:
(a) repositioning (more logical to my mind), resizing, regrouped
(b) generally "tighter" and more compact
(c) compass integrated with roll, pitch AND yaw indicators
(d) semitransparent greenish contrast disks / crosshair in the middle of the screen... very accurate with just the right amount of alpha... shows up against the sun, planets, dark sky well, and of course stations, buoys, ships.

The basic CONCEPT for the POVRay hud... (more properly called a "dashboard" or even "cockpit): a completely opaque cockpit that will not seriously degrade viewing (of the outside world) and will not obscure anything that needs to be unobscured (such as text, both in space and while docked), yet imposes a great deal of realism... the "feel" that you are actually in a cockpit. Shadows, lighting, phong and specular hilights, glossy paint in spots, brushed aluminum / dark metal / chrome. I decided not to use any (slight) reflection... the image(s) wouldn't be able to reflect anything from the game real-time... such as the edge of a console monitor reflecting what is going on in the radar scanner.

I had a couple of more ideas after I fell back to a default-style hud... and I might implement them... such as (a) is there any real reason that the radar (scanner) MUST be in the middle? ... and along those lines: (b) at the lower middle of the image, a "cutout" (shaped like an inverted trapezoid) that extends just almost to the very bottom of the screen... angles up at the left and right to the actual consoles... helps in scooping cargo. The general shape of the console from left to right is trapezoid - inverted trapezoid - trapezoid. Radar (scanner) to the left of the cutout, oversized compass with integrated pitch/bank(roll)/yaw to the right of the cutout (I can't really see a use for large, independant "accurate" PBR indicators - how do they help?).

"In front" of the dashboard: struts (a perforated girder like appearance)... from lower left and right corners (but obscured by the dashboard)... angling up and inward (but no so far that they will obscure text... they are a bit curved, and checked against ALL text screens...) ... up to a point... then angling back outwards towards the top L / R corners. At the top, the struts would just almost touch the horizontal grey line at the top of the text screens while docked.

Semi-transparent "seams" in the "cockpit glass". Fairly narrow so as not to impede text too much. This is done in the Raytracer with light gray narrow cylinders with phong highlighting... but with the right amount of alpha. The "seams" basically run towards the middle of the screen UP TO the crosshair... from 4 corners, starting at the struts. A temporary experiment yielded good results. These would be FAINTLY visible.

A very transparent blue rectangle "viewscreen" (with VERY THIN opaque metallic borders) at the top, with the exact dimensions of the "Communications Log". This "explains" the appearance of the Comm Log... it isn't just something that "appears" and hovers over your head.

The trouble is that all of this looks GREAT except for targeting brackets that appear *inside* the cockit. It completely destroys the illusion.

Anyway... not sure if I want to implement this JUST YET, because there might be new hud-features in 1.74 that we don't really know about.

[Cmdr Wyvern]

is there any real reason that the radar (scanner) MUST be in the middle?

Well no, I suppose you can put the scanner screen anywhere you wanted.
I figure most place it center because it's your most important instrument next to laser sights in combat: How else are you to quickly find that bothersome Krait shooting up your aft shield? Much less tell where all the hostiles are at a glance.
And the scanner screen was always central in Elite, Frontiers, FFE, ENK, ect, so it's location is sorta canon.

[JeffBTX]

is there any real reason that the radar (scanner) MUST be in the middle?

Well no, I suppose you can put the scanner screen anywhere you wanted.
I figure most place it center because it's your most important instrument next to laser sights in combat: How else are you to quickly find that bothersome Krait shooting up your aft shield? Much less tell where all the hostiles are at a glance.
And the scanner screen was always central in Elite, Frontiers, FFE, ENK, ect, so it's location is sorta canon.

I tried to google ENK... I've never heard of it. I tried in conjunction with keywords "elite" and "frontier"... nothing came up?

I guess one could say that some things are "more canon" and other things are "less canon", and some things "are so LITTLE canon" that they just don't make a difference. Okay, here is the point I am trying to make... for the original Elite, most versions were wire-frame with hidden surface removal. Does that make the PC Plus version, Frontier, FFE or Oolite "non-canon"? FFE had a Gazeteer. Frontier and FFE had only ONE galaxy, not 8. In FFE, the scanner was NOT "huge and centered and the focal point of the console". In FFE, the Thargoids actually DID A FAVOR (or at least exchanged services) for the player (how UNcanon is that?) Everyone is different and it is kind of subjective, but when I use the word "canon" it mostly refers to gameplay and the "general feel"... not specifically where the instruments are.

As mentioned above... in FFE the scanner WAS NOT centered. And it wasn't so large. It was just one component of the console, rather than a massive centered thing that everything else was "just attached to".

Human perception: Once you are in a combat area, the scanner makes little difference, and a quick glance tells you all that you need to know.

I've given up designing a hud w/ a background image until 1.74 comes out... I think (hope) that 1.74 has great things in store for HUD design. For one thing, I HOPE that the in-space HUD "goes away" when you are docked (already suggested by someone else some time ago that in-space screens and while-docked screens are different... inconclusive as to whether the DEVs liked the idea...). If this holds it will affect HUD design because we no longer need to worry about obscuring text. For another thing, I refer directly to my original post in the thread.

So... I have been using a projection-only HUD for a while now... the only image being a semitransparent "contrast disk/crosshair" in the middle of the screen. The scanner is actually SMALLER than the default, and OFF-CENTERED... it is to the left. The compass is LARGER than normal, just off-centered to the right. The lower middle area of the screen, normally occupied by a massive scanner, is *clear*. If anything, I do BETTER in combat. All instruments are clustered to the left and to the right of the lower middle.

[Cmdr James]

I presume ENK is "Elite: The New Kind"

[JeffBTX]

Cmdr James: Thanks, yes, that must be it. It didn't google... I did actually follow that project for a bit while it lasted.

[another_commander]

... I think (hope) that 1.74 has great things in store for HUD design. For one thing, I HOPE that the in-space HUD "goes away" when you are docked (already suggested by someone else some time ago that in-space screens and while-docked screens are different... inconclusive as to whether the DEVs liked the idea...). If this holds it will affect HUD design because we no longer need to worry about obscuring text.

This will be possible to do by script in the upcoming release. Like this:

Code: Select all

this.startUp = function()
{
	player.ship.hudHidden = true;
}


this.shipDockedWithStation = function()
{
	player.ship.hudHidden = true;
}


this.shipLaunchedFromStation = function(stationLaunchedFrom)
{
	player.ship.hudHidden = false;
}

[DaddyHoggy]

... I think (hope) that 1.74 has great things in store for HUD design. For one thing, I HOPE that the in-space HUD "goes away" when you are docked (already suggested by someone else some time ago that in-space screens and while-docked screens are different... inconclusive as to whether the DEVs liked the idea...). If this holds it will affect HUD design because we no longer need to worry about obscuring text.

This will be possible to do by script in the upcoming release. Like this:

Code: Select all

this.startUp = function()
{
	player.ship.hudHidden = true;
}


this.shipDockedWithStation = function()
{
	player.ship.hudHidden = true;
}


this.shipLaunchedFromStation = function(stationLaunchedFrom)
{
	player.ship.hudHidden = false;
}

oooooooh! Excellent!

[JeffBTX]

another_commander;

Yes! MOST excellent!


I will wait until the release before I redesign that "Full RayTraced HUD with Struts 'n Things", I think that there were a couple of other new HUD features mentioned that I need to see first (re: "dockable HUD items", etc.)

That just leaves the "Green Brackets Floating Around the Cabin".

... I will just have to assume that my ship is haunted by "Reticle-Ghosts".

[Cmdr Wyvern]

... I think (hope) that 1.74 has great things in store for HUD design. For one thing, I HOPE that the in-space HUD "goes away" when you are docked (already suggested by someone else some time ago that in-space screens and while-docked screens are different... inconclusive as to whether the DEVs liked the idea...). If this holds it will affect HUD design because we no longer need to worry about obscuring text.

This will be possible to do by script in the upcoming release. Like this:

Code: Select all

this.startUp = function()
{
	player.ship.hudHidden = true;
}


this.shipDockedWithStation = function()
{
	player.ship.hudHidden = true;
}


this.shipLaunchedFromStation = function(stationLaunchedFrom)
{
	player.ship.hudHidden = false;
}

Cool feature, AC. Except for one small niggle - if the HUD is disabled while docked, then it becomes a challenge to load out your pylons, not being able to read the loadout display.