Ubership or not?

[MKG]

OK, I'll come clean. I'm flying around in a way-beyond-spec Imp. Courier (lots of energy banks, increased cargo space, pimped-up speed etc.). This is principally because I fell in love with the Courier in the days of Frontier and that other one.

So, an iron-ass Ubership. My particular thing is, I have to admit, deciding to do something only vaguely possible and sitting with my calculator working out the odds, and then doing it - or not. Combat, fun though it is, sort of gets in the way of that - hence the super-duper machine. However, I STILL get blasted out of existence by what appears to be ever-increasingly numerous and skilful bands of pirates.

I'm not complaining - but I'm beginning to wonder if this wonderful bit of software genius actually takes into account what I'm flying. The battles I get involved in now are WAY above the level of combat I saw when I had my off-the-shelf Cobra 3 - there are less of them, admittedly, but now I'm seeing groups of ten ships (and I have the impression of lots more sometimes) sitting waiting for, apparently, little me. And I do so hate to use that energy bomb (ah - that's another one of those Courier enhancements).

So - is it just me, or does the code take cheats like me into account and compensate accordingly?

Mike

[LittleBear]

Player and NPC ships work differently in terms of shields. ALL player ships have the same shield strength regardless of how many energy points you give the ship in ship data. A shield booster doubles the shield strength and a Military Shield doubles it again. So as far as a player is concerned, an Adder with a shield booster has twice the shields as an Imperial Courier without one. Adding more energy points to a player ship helps a bit in terms of survivalbility as it gives you more banks once your shields are down, but banks are drained vastly quicker than the main shields. So there is a limit to how much you can cheat! The size of the ship is also important. Big Player ships are hit by NPCs much more often than smaller ones. I reckon a Cheated up adder with Shield Boosters and Militery Shields would probabley be a better ship than your boosted up IC as it would have the same shield strength but be much harder for NPCs to actaully hit.

I don't think the game itself balances out to take into account your ship, but quite a few OXPs are deliberatley desgined to balance out the game if you are in an uber ship (eg Renegade pirates, Thargon Threat, Second Wave etc), so if you are playing with these ones installed they are compensating for the toughness of your ship.

[Davidtq]

Ive noticed larger groups of pirates as Ive went along but thats probably more to do with the amount of time I spend chasing down cargo cannisters in anarchy systems I havent noticed anything changed by my move up from cobra M3 to Python Class Cruiser (mainly for the cargo space). Apart from the fact that python seems to soak up the damage a little better, but also takes more hits.

Another interesting oddity Ive noticed is that after Ive shot everything that moves in a anarchy system if I jump out of the system then back in before too long the system doesnt seem as hostile as it did on the first run as if the pirate forces are taking time to rebuild, if I stay away a while it will be just as much fun on the way in again. I have no idea if the code does work like this but it seems to at times.

Ive been trying to decide whether or not to make up my own custom pirate ship... Something with at least 75 tonnes of cargo space I need really whilst still be able to use it as a dog fighter. The PCC seems that little big big although it is increasing my profits as Ive never over filled it on an one run into a system. Ive done a flame \ black cobra reskin that I can give all the specs but even if I up the price to reflect the specs it doesnt feel right to give a cobra M3 75 tonnes of cargo space...

I might well play around with the modelling some more yet and see if I cant come up with something to suit my exact needs. Fast, deadly and mide sized cargo whilst able to dog fight and evade with the best of them.

What ever I end up with next I will be doing my own paint job ob it

[Zanasj]

I must raise my hand also. There's more and more action, but maybe it's because lately I've been scouring the corridors of not only anarchy systems, but feudal systems and the occasional multi-government corridor as well. Many times the pirates are already attacking a trading "fleet", so it's easier to get the first shots in. I've had to use energy bomb a couple of times, e.g. when a Random Hits revenge squad and a small vanilla pirate group attacked me at the same time.

In a not-quite-iron-ass-ship, evading/dodging on head-on approach and careful use of fuel injectors is recommended (so after a long witchspace jump, things can get hairy). Imperial Couriers and Griff Kraits should never be attacked directly head-on.

PCC is kind of an ubership - or a true moneymaking ship. It can have all the goodies, and the cargo space is great - you can usually transport a mix of 2 commodities (or contract cargo + other stuff) and have plenty of room for the said canister / pod hunting, something which is a fun activity, especially when your lasers are cooling. The rear laser is hard to aim, though, since it doesn't quite seem to hit in the middle of the target reticule...

I'm flying a SuperCobra at the moment. It's energetic, fast and maneuverable, and the flat profile should make it a harder target. On the downside, the cargo space isn't that great, and the maintenance cost is a drag. But you know what's still the most dangerous enemy? A kamikaze Asp II / IV !

What ever I end up with next I will be doing my own paint job ob it

Hear, hear! The most important quality of any ship is the coolness factor.

[Disembodied]

Fast, deadly and mide sized cargo whilst able to dog fight and evade with the best of them.

That's pretty much the definition of über, right there! Don't get me wrong: your game, your ship, your rules; that's pretty much the cornerstone of Oolite. Do what thou wilt, etc.

Personally, although I recognise the temptation to construct a ship like this, I'd always have the nagging question: if it's possible to make a ship that does everything, why would anyone have anything else? I mean, I'm sure the military would love to have a really fast, agile, heavily-armed helicopter that can also carry large numbers of troops and/or materiel, but let's face it, they're never going to get one. By the time the technology exists to make something like a Chinook fast and agile, the same technology will make other, smaller, dedicated attack choppers even faster and more agile, surely. Warships are warships and freighters are freighters. Mixing the two together should produce something with second-rate characteristics of both, e,g, a Cobra III: not as fast or as agile as an Asp, and not nearly as roomy as a Python, but it's still a much better combat vessel than a Python is and a hell of a lot better at carrying cargo than an Asp.

This is a bit of a games-design bugbear of mine that goes all the way back to playing Star Fleet Battles (oh, the wasted years ... well, weeks, anyway. Mostly spent reading rules.). Überships just lead to über-überships, which lead to über-über-überships, and so on. The numbers get higher and higher, and the sums take longer and longer to do, but ultimately the game as a whole doesn't get any better. Although the brief period where one is flying one's übership, and nobody else has got one yet, is fun while it lasts ...

[Azathoth]

What ever I end up with next I will be doing my own paint job ob it

Hear, hear! The most important quality of any ship is the coolness factor.

Yeh, I agree. Even Captain Kirk had to rely on a hairpiece and girdle to pull those alien babes because his ship wasn’t “cool” enough.

Trouble is, most of the cool looking ships are Cobra variants. In my opinion anyway. This probably points to the major flaw with the original Elite. The best looking ship is the one you start out with.

If anyone could direct me to some cool player ships I would be most grateful. If only I could get my hands on a Black Monk’s Gunship!

[Disembodied]

Taste is purely personal of course but I like (and fly) the Wolf Mark II SE:

[Lestradae]

If only I could get my hands on a Black Monk’s Gunship!

You will, in time

[DaddyHoggy]

Nice paint-job D! Stylish and intimidating at the same time!

[Azathoth]

If only I could get my hands on a Black Monk’s Gunship!

You will, in time

Could you please explain. A quick look at the wiki says that it is available to the player. So have I just been unlucky to not see one for sale, or is the wiki incorrect?

[Disembodied]

Thanks, DH, but all I can really take the credit for is the lettering ...

[Screet]

If anyone could direct me to some cool player ships I would be most grateful. If only I could get my hands on a Black Monk’s Gunship!

CADUCEUS!!! I really can't imagine to switch to any other ship...

If it's only the looks, the neolite fer-de-lance!

I also like the model of the Merlin/Kestrel very much, but it's too tiny, much like cheating...

The Black Monk ships are sold pretty frequently if you install RS/OSE, however player ships will only support ONE front laser!

Screet

[Davidtq]

Fast, deadly and mide sized cargo whilst able to dog fight and evade with the best of them.

That's pretty much the definition of über, right there! Don't get me wrong: your game, your ship, your rules; that's pretty much the cornerstone of Oolite. Do what thou wilt, etc.

Personally, although I recognise the temptation to construct a ship like this, I'd always have the nagging question: if it's possible to make a ship that does everything, why would anyone have anything else? I mean, I'm sure the military would love to have a really fast, agile, heavily-armed helicopter that can also carry large numbers of troops and/or materiel, but let's face it, they're never going to get one. By the time the technology exists to make something like a Chinook fast and agile, the same technology will make other, smaller, dedicated attack choppers even faster and more agile, surely. Warships are warships and freighters are freighters. Mixing the two together should produce something with second-rate characteristics of both, e,g, a Cobra III: not as fast or as agile as an Asp, and not nearly as roomy as a Python, but it's still a much better combat vessel than a Python is and a hell of a lot better at carrying cargo than an Asp.

This is a bit of a games-design bugbear of mine that goes all the way back to playing Star Fleet Battles (oh, the wasted years ... well, weeks, anyway. Mostly spent reading rules.). Überships just lead to über-überships, which lead to über-über-überships, and so on. The numbers get higher and higher, and the sums take longer and longer to do, but ultimately the game as a whole doesn't get any better. Although the brief period where one is flying one's übership, and nobody else has got one yet, is fun while it lasts ...

Depends on your definition of Uber really. I dont really see something with cobra mk3 stats but a large cargo bay as being excessive, when theres 0.50 speed ships and ships the size of cargo cannisters and the like out there. I tried the Wolf Mk2 for a while, loved the looks, didnt quite need its stats though and it didnt have the cargo capacity to make money fast enough.

Id quite happily give up 90tonnes of cargo bay from the python for a more cobra like handling not that the python cant fight well, I just dont need all that it offers, and want a little that it doesnt. I would happily forgo side and rear lasers as well I dont use them at all anyway.
fitting out ships was one of my favourite parts about FE2 I could do it "my way" and focus on exactly what I wanted at the time.

Perhaps I could work on a "extended" cobra, with the classic cobra front but with the rear extended to give it the shape of a cobras hood instead of just the head. Giving it the same front and rear profile, but a bit extra length to explain the extended cargo capacity...

Might look a bit unwieldy will have to look at it.

Its not as if external size always corrolates with interior space, just compare the original and the new mini The older mini is smaller on the outside with a surprising amount of space inside the newer mini doesnt seem to make the most of its larger displacement.

Perhaps I could take an old cobra strip it to a shell and and have it fitted with differently configured drives \ equipment, using newer technology perhaps newer engines take up less space, perhaps I sacrifice some living quarters space and had the ship turned to strictly single person instead of big enough to fit 2 crew? Perhaps Ive removed some of the service access losing the ability to repair on the run and having to rely on ship yard servicing 75 tonnes is probably a bit too much for a cobra shell still but thinking how much space a "tonne" of goods normally takes up and the size of the cobra itself. A "earth" based 7.5 tonne lorry takes up about 27x8x11 but the space it takes up isnt just about capacity its to allow carrying large awkward shaped items etc and is no where near jam packed with 7.5tonnes of well packaged goods. The Cobra Mk3 over all is 65 x30 x 130 ft basically the cobra COULD fit 75 tonnes in just 8ft (out of 65ft)of the length of the ship at the rear. In reality thats where the engines are, but it does give some idea of the size of the ship and the necesary size to haul goods.

Perhaps an extra 8' on the back of the length of the cobra and the modifications suggested above would be more than sufficient to make up for the extra cargo capacity...

Just thinking in terms of "earthly" cars when Ive prepped cars for motorsport its amazing just how much you can take out of a consumer model and bin without affecting the practicality of the vehicle at all. Its also pretty amazing what you can achieve with some knowledge and money, without sacrificing too much at all. My pilot could easily spend 10 x the ships "new" cost on modifications to achieve his customised ship...

Just done the maths a 7.5 ton van of 27x8x11 filled with water would equate to 65 tonnes, so unless those TC ARE really inefficient on storeage space I should be able to modify a cobra to fit the goods, and maybe "tune" the engines to compensate...

[Disembodied]

Without having to worry about how big the drive is, or the power plants or fuel tanks, it can be done any way you like, right enough: but in the abstract sense of game design (as opposed the the practical sense of making the game the way you want it) personally I feel there's always got to be a plus and a minus to any serious in-game decision. Choosing what ship to fly is one of those decisions. Price balance is one way to work it, but – since money in Oolite is just a matter of time, really – it shouldn't be the only factor. If a ship gets better in one direction, then ideally it should suffer in at least one other. More cargo space should mean lower speed or acceleration or handling, or (actually, probably and) presenting a bigger target. Smaller, faster and more nimble should mean less cargo space, and/or poorer shields or energy. If an option is always right – if there's no cons to weigh against the pros – then there's no fun in making the decisions, because they're obviously the right thing to do.

Which of course is not to say that you shouldn't do whatever you like, or that people shouldn't make tiny speedy nimble ships that can carry canisters bigger than they are. After all, nobody has to download an OXP they don't want. And anything anyone makes can be easily hacked to conform to how you want it anyway. If you make a "fat" Cobra III that can take 65 tons without losing any combat capabilities, I can always alter it in my own system to suit my own tastes!

[Cmdr Wyvern]

Taste is purely personal of course but I like (and fly) the Wolf Mark II SE:

Why not show off my ride, a Dragon M: