What's detonating my ECM-hardened missiles?

[JohnnyBoy]

I spend 350 credits on ECM-hardened missiles, lock them onto some pirate scumbag's backside and launch them. But their rocket motors have barely ignited when old Jimmy Pirate uses his ECM device and detonates them.

How is he doing this? My ECM doesn't affect ECM-hardened missiles, so what has he got that I haven't?

[DaddyHoggy]

he's installed the anti-hardened missile ECM oxp

Seriously though - I have no idea.

[JohnnyBoy]

It's always the Basilisks and Hydras that are completely immune to my ECM-hardened missiles, but then one or two others have the same capabilities. I've just had a Moray Starboat doing it!

[Davidtq]

ECM hardened missiles are ecm HARDENED not guaranteed ecm proof, they just have a high chance of not being destroyed by an ECM pulse but still have a chance to be destroyed by an ecm, its the same when they are chasing you keep spamming the ecm and you have a chance to destroy them! from the "readme":-

See, right here is what I’m talking about: this is where you need to fit an ECM. Someone locks a missile on you, you pop that sucker fast. Oh, I know there’s Hardheads out there, shielded missiles proofed against countermeasures, but a good ECM can pop those too, if you’re lucky.
You get one of those running on you, you turn tail and run from it as fast as you can. A warhead’s nasty, but nosense in giving it a kinetic advantage too, right? Keep slapping the ECM as you go, if you’ve got the energy for it: if the first burst don’t kill it, maybe the next one will.

[Eric Walch]

See, right here is what I’m talking about: this is where you need to fit an ECM. Someone locks a missile on you, you pop that sucker fast. Oh, I know there’s Hardheads out there, shielded missiles proofed against countermeasures, but a good ECM can pop those too, if you’re lucky.

Indeed, but not if you have ramirez missiles & bombs installed. He replaces the hardhead routine with his own so it never detonates on ECM. But alternatively, he adds flares you can buy that do deactivate such a hardhead.

[JohnnyBoy]

David, thanks for the reply. I'm aware that when I've had an ECM-hardened missile crawling up my backside, repeatedly hitting the ECM button eventually detonates it.

What I'm talking about is: I lock missile onto Angus McScumbag, I launch, he immediately detonates it with the first ECM burst. I lock second missile onto his pirate botty, I launch, he again immediately detonates it with his first ECM burst.

I then get fed up with watching him repeatedly convert 350 credits into space dust and wonder how the hell he does it...

[Davidtq]

The thing is its not a damage over time effect fromt he ecm its a "chance" on every pulse (ecm emits 4 pulses every time its fired) so its quite possible for it to be destroyed first pulse its just a lucky roll of the random number generator.

I believe its a 10% chance per pulse to stop the missile in its tracks (5% detonate 5% die) so every time an ecm is fired it has 4 x1-10 chances of destroying the hardened missile.

I think from ahrumans post here:- https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.ph ... +ecm+pulse

its a 34% chance that your hadened missile is going to be destroyed by one firing of an ecm. Its not hard to believe the pirate made a couple of lucky rolls

Personally I dont use any missiles, got 880 kills in oolite and havent actually launched a missile yet! (ive not been playing long - made elite in other versions - but never used missiles) I just dont like the idea of chucking perfectly good credits at your foe...

[Disembodied]

Just to be sure – since there have been some reports of problems with NPC ships launching missiles which immediately blow up, presumably due to a wrongly placed launch point – have you tried firing a test missile at, say, an asteroid? Just to make sure that the problem is indeed with enemies carrying super-lucky Omnideities, instead of with the launch poistion on your ship.

[Davidtq]

Just to be sure – since there have been some reports of problems with NPC ships launching missiles which immediately blow up, presumably due to a wrongly placed launch point – have you tried firing a test missile at, say, an asteroid? Just to make sure that the problem is indeed with enemies carrying super-lucky Omnideities, instead of with the launch poistion on your ship.

hmmm, I best go check those launch locations on my kintari ships... I think IVe copied some from a cobra or something

[JohnnyBoy]

its a 34% chance that your hadened missile is going to be destroyed by one firing of an ecm. Its not hard to believe the pirate made a couple of lucky rolls

I can accept that David, but it just seems strange that it takes me 7 or 8 blasts of the ECM to take out an ECM-hardened missile, and yet pirate dude can do it first try, twice in a row.

Disembodied, I'll fire a missile at an asteroid if you want, but the detonations always seem to coincide with ECM blasts.

I'm just surprised that no-one else has had the same experiences as me.

[Davidtq]

its a 34% chance that your hadened missile is going to be destroyed by one firing of an ecm. Its not hard to believe the pirate made a couple of lucky rolls

I can accept that David, but it just seems strange that it takes me 7 or 8 blasts of the ECM to take out an ECM-hardened missile, and yet pirate dude can do it first try, twice in a row.

Disembodied, I'll fire a missile at an asteroid if you want, but the detonations always seem to coincide with ECM blasts.

I'm just surprised that no-one else has had the same experiences as me.

How do you know that the missiles you zap first shot of the ecm arent hardened ones with a lucky role? I havent identified any difference on scanner or messages between a hardened missile and a normal- not been playing the game long and tend to be concentrating on ducking and diving and hitting the ecm to notice any subtle differences that may exist. Certainly Ive had ships fire 4 missiles near enough at once at me (is fast missile bleeding a potential bug or just normal AI behaviour? I dont know)and two have been zapped with the first hit of the ecm and the other two have carried on, do these ships carry mixed loads? or did I get lucky with the first two missiles? I just dont know.

Its a sure bet that if a missile survives the first hit its a hardened missile. but just because it dies in the first hit of an ecm doesnt mean its not a hardened missile.

As I havent used missiles I have no experience with the missile system in this version to have any real say in possible bugs, but I have plenty of experience with probability and getting lucky on a one in three shot twice in a row doesnt strike me as an "out there" experience. Roughly equal to the odds of rolling a 6 on a dice.

[TGHC]

Sometimes even after repeated ecming they still punt in to you, and they can give varying degrees of damage to your shields, if you inject away in bursts you can watch them coming closer but not quite catch untill they run out of steam, certainly the best tactic to use with multiple missile attacks.

[JohnnyBoy]

How do you know that the missiles you zap first shot of the ecm arent hardened ones with a lucky role?

I'm not zapping hardened missiles with the first shot of the ECM - I wish that I was! But somehow the pirates are. Time and time and time again....

Its a sure bet that if a missile survives the first hit its a hardened missile. but just because it dies in the first hit of an ecm doesnt mean its not a hardened missile.

Well if I'm the one that's firing it, I know its a hardened missile.

As I havent used missiles I have no experience with the missile system in this version to have any real say in possible bugs, but I have plenty of experience with probability and getting lucky on a one in three shot twice in a row doesnt strike me as an "out there" experience. Roughly equal to the odds of rolling a 6 on a dice.

Like I said before David, I would be quite happy to accept what you have said here, and leave this thread to die. But I can see a clear disparity between the ECM system on my ship and the system on certain pirate vessels. I can't ever remember hitting a Basilisk or a Hydra with an ECM-hardened missile. And I've been playing Oolite since 2006.

If no-one knows what's happening here, then that's fine. I just wanted to be sure that there wasn't some 'super' ECM system that was being sold at Tech Level 14 planets, and that I was missing out on....

[JensAyton]

The missiles fired by players are identical to the ones fired by NPCs. The ECM fired by players is identical to the one fired by NPCs.

There are two factors at play here: one, humans are bad at dealing with randomness. We search for patterns, and we do it by forgetting uninteresting events and remembering interesting ones, which results in a tendency to see patterns that don’t actually exist. Two, ECM effectiveness depends on range (the four ECM blasts have different ranges, so more distant hardheads are less likely to be affected). It is quite likely that you’re firing missiles from a closer range than NPCs.

[ClymAngus]

Out of interest do dead missiles "float" around in space after they've run out of fuel? Or does oolite clean them up?