Laser display problem in 1.7.2

[*cat]

Thanks for constantly improving a great game. I hope this bug report helps:
I've just installed 1.7.2 on iMac G4 1.5Ghz. During dogfights I notice that impact flashes (when I'm shooting at things) don't always display properly, so it's hard to tell if I'm hitting the target. I can't work out the consistency: sometimes the impact flashes seem to be inside or behind the models.
And rear lasers: My rear lasers have gone invisible: only the impact flashes and rising laser temperature reveal that they're working.
I haven't changed ship (Tiger) or save file since upgrading from 1.65.

[Frame]

Thanks for constantly improving a great game. I hope this bug report helps:
I've just installed 1.7.2 on iMac G4 1.5Ghz. During dogfights I notice that impact flashes (when I'm shooting at things) don't always display properly, so it's hard to tell if I'm hitting the target. I can't work out the consistency: sometimes the impact flashes seem to be inside or behind the models.
And rear lasers: My rear lasers have gone invisible: only the impact flashes and rising laser temperature reveal that they're working.
I haven't changed ship (Tiger) or save file since upgrading from 1.65.

As allways, try with a default jameson with no OXPs installed.. and
see if this is consistant...

buy a Cobra III or I, save your commanderfile under different name...

Disable/Remove all OXPs
start oolite, and hold down left Shift key in order to clear the cache..

And see if the problem persists..

If it has dissapeared, its something in an OXP...

[goran]

I'm flying the Tiger and can confirm that aft laser is (mostly) not visible. I think that the laser firing position is the same as viewing pos. I know s*it, so somebody else must check that.

[LittleBear]

Hey, the Tiger is a prototype military ship that never made it into full production. One of the reasons was the difficulty in aiming the aft laser.

[JensAyton]

I'm flying the Tiger and can confirm that aft laser is (mostly) not visible. I think that the laser firing position is the same as viewing pos.

That would indeed explain it.

[Commander McLane]

I was just about to report that weapon_position_foo is broken at least since 1.71, and it was probably even in 1.70. All weapon positions default to 0 0 0, with probably a few meters in the respective firing direction.

So if the rear view position of the Tiger is close to 0 0 -something, you wouldn't see the laser anymore.

EDIT: Checking with BerliOs I see that I had already reported the problem. It's bug #013273.

So the additional information is only that the bug persists in 1.71 - 1.71.2.

[JensAyton]

…except that bug says it only happens in external views. Anyway, my proposed fix is to completely reimplement the lasers, because they’re ugly, but it would be silly to do that before the camera stuff I’m supposed to be working on.

[Commander McLane]

…except that bug says it only happens in external views.

I think that's a misunderstanding. What I said in the bug-report (or at least what I wanted to say; obviously I wasn't clear enough), is that external views can help to detect where the laser actually originates from, as they are the only way of looking beneath (or above) your ship.

It is the weapon_position_foo itself that is broken and results in a wrong position, regardless of your view. Only that with the internal views you probably won't notice, whereas it becomes very clear with external views.

Clearer now?

I want to do some more testing today. It seems to me that probably only the y-coordinate is wrong, not x nor z, but I want to confirm that first.

[Cmdr James]

This has been discussed before. Setting the weapon offset does change where it originates from on the internal view. The external views always show the laser from the same place (0,0,0 I guess).

[Commander McLane]

This has been discussed before. Setting the weapon offset does change where it originates from on the internal view.

No, it doesn't. See gorans complaint. The view_position_aft (0.0 0.0 -53.0) and weapon_position_aft (0.0 -1.0 -53.0) of the Tiger are different, but the laser originates from (0.0 0.0 something) and is invisible. It used to be visible, however, in previous versions of Oolite, because the difference of one meter is sufficient to place it below the viewpoint. It just isn't placed there in 1.71.n.

The external views always show the laser from the same place (0,0,0 I guess).

No, they don't. Look at the screenshots of my Imperial Courier. The laser beams seem to originate from the edges of the ship's bounding box. So for instance the forward laser originates precisely from the ship's nose - only some meters beneath it. But the side lasers are supposed to originate from the main entity's hull, not from the nacelles. So perhaps it's from the center of the respective side of the bounding box?


One last detail: I am not completely sure whether also NPCs are affected from the bug. For an Imperial Courier firing at me from the distance the screenshots are inconclusive. Sometimes it looks like the laser origin is at the nose, sometimes it seems to be a little below. The additional lasers from the nacelles' tips are placed correctly, however.

I hope these further observations shed some more light on the issue.