Subentity kills

[Cmdr James]

I think PlayerEntity collectBountyFor (around line 3357 or so) should do something like

if ([other isSubEntity])
{
return;
}
As discussed https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?p=45193#45193

[JensAyton]

Done.

[Cmdr James]

One question I am not 100% sure about. If a ship is composed entirely of subentities, will it now not be possible to get a kill for it? Or is there always a core that is not a subentity?

[Captain Hesperus]

My understanding of sub-entities is that they are additions to a core model. Imagine taking a real world model and sticking bits and pieces on it. Even if the ehtire original model is covered by extra bits, there is still a basic framework under it all to which the shipdata.plist relates.

Captain Hesperus

[Cmdr James]

Cool. I thought so, but I wasnt completely sure that it isnt possible to just screw subentities together without a base.

People have all kinds of funky ideas, I just wanted to make sure I wasnt responsible for making the subentities thing worse

[Commander McLane]

I was always loving to slaughter a Hydra or Rattlecutter slooooooooowly, bit by bit, collecting kills on the way.

So I am very much opposed to this change!

And I beg to differ from Cmdr James. I don't think this was really discussed, neither here or anywhere. Furthermore, the outcome of the very brief exchange of arguments Cmdr James is referring to was actually that it's fine as it is. Here's the quote:

oh i see. so you have to hit the sub-entity enough times to destroy it to get the kill. That number of hits makes the ship pretty weak so you have to wait for it to recover enough so you can do the same again to get further 'kills'.

that's fair enough, if you're bored enough to go through all that palaver just to get a few extra kills, rather than just killing it and then going on to something else then good luck

And there were no objections given to this point.

Bottom line: I would like to have it taken back until further discussion.

[Cmdr James]

Im sorry that you are upset, I didnt mean to cause a problem.

It is quite obvious that this is not intentional behavior, and caused by subentites being instances of ship entity.

I dont see any logical or canonical reason for awarding kills for subentities, a kill is, by any definition I have heard for destroying, or possibly disabling an enemy.

When I said it had been discussed, I did not mean it had been decided that we should change behaviour, I simply meant that you have discovered a bug, and that you had mentioned it there.

To my mind this is clearly a bug, I really dont see how shooting a wing on a ship is a kill. I understand that it requires skill, and is possibly harder to get than shooting an adder or whatever, but it is not intentional, and I dont think it is logical.

In fact, I would go further and say kills should not be awarded for hulks either, but I think there is a problem then that if a pilot ejects leaving a hulk, you would not get a kill for disabling him, and not for killing him. This may be a nice solution to the graveyard "issue" where people can get cheap kills by attacking graveyard ships, which also isnt really fair, but this is a separate discussion really.

[Disembodied]

Shooting subentities doesn't necessarily require skill... I can confirm that you can do it without meaning to (or even without knowing that subentities existed).

On the hulk issue, might it be possible to create two different types of hulk -- "hot" and "cold"? A "hot" hulk would be created when a pilot ejects, but after, say, 60 seconds, would become a "cold" one. A player would get a kill (and appropriate bounty) for destroying a "hot" hulk, on the assumption that it was probable they caused some, if not all, of the fatal damage. But destroying a "cold" hulk would just result in some debris-clearing bounty (and access to whatever goodies lie inside). Ships in the Tionisla graveyard would, of course, be "cold" hulks by definition.

[Captain Hesperus]

Ships in the Tionisla graveyard would, of course, be "cold" hulks by definition.

You know Commander McLane will be very upset with that, since he'll have nowhere to 'test' his Q-bombs.

Captain Hesperus

[Cmdr James]

Ships in the Tionisla graveyard would, of course, be "cold" hulks by definition.

You know Commander McLane will be very upset with that, since he'll have nowhere to 'test' his Q-bombs.

Captain Hesperus

Nah, you can still go to Tianve and see some tourists.

[Eric Walch]

Shooting subentities doesn't necessarily require skill... I can confirm that you can do it without meaning to (or even without knowing that subentities existed).

I agree that in most cases getting points for hitting subentities is a bug. Take for example a ship full of flashers, turrets or non weapon items. When you shout at those ships you often hit a subentity before you do the final shot. I often see flashes of parts blowing up without even knowing witch part I blew up.
Take for instance the cobra-rapier of wolfwoods_variants (one of my favourite victims). That one has a subentity on the back you always have to shoot first. Its a kind of shield that protects the ship from behind. The ship is weaker when the shield is bypassed, but normally it is easier to just follow him and keep shooting from behind. Getting 2 hitpoints that way it wrong.

[Captain Hesperus]

Nah, you can still go to Tianve and see some tourists.

That's a hell of a commute from Tionisla......

Captain Hesperus

[Commander McLane]

Nah, you can still go to Tianve and see some tourists.

That's a hell of a commute from Tionisla......

I wouldn't mind that, as I seem to have some special abilities as far as appearing in different places at the same time is concerned. It's the travel time within the system that makes the whole thing more boring (the pulsar is much further out than the graveyard). And, of course, there is no real comparison, as far as the number of potential kills is concerned!

By the way: I firmly repudiate the allegation that I return to Tionisla every week for a... errrm... special purpose!

And finally: If I'm voted down on the issue, okay, so be it.



":sigh: Isn't life hard enough for a pirate in disguise hard-working individual with an almost clean conscience? "

[Hoopy]

cold hulks could still blow up (allowing you to test Q bombs) but you just wouldn't get the kill.

[Cmdr. Maegil]

...which defeats the whole purpose of 'testing' those expensive buggers...