Planetfall 2.0 (probably)

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Re: Planetfall 2.0 (maybe)

Post by Redspear »

Stormrider wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 6:10 pm
I don't really think planetfall needs to do anything other than allow the player to land on planets. Planets offer a great alternative to the main station for OXP authors that want to create content that would not make sense on a police station but are not capable of creating models for their own stations.
I feel that the more that is done to "make planetfall interesting" the less ability OXP authors will have to develop their own interpretation of interesting play.
Right. So having some sense of what that might include could be helpful.

The problem might be that planetfall 1.0 and oxps that drew upon it have left us with the association of planetfall being an enabler for intra-system trading and missions. A lot of both early implementation and subsequent discussion was caught in this loop.

If we're going inter-system however then there's much more of a chance for the equipment required under the old model (v1.0) to be damaged along the way, creating a major PITA for the player headed for a moon on a distant planet from the main station. Considering that option, we then might wish to remove the requirement for docking computers for example...

Stormrider wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 6:10 pm
Visually I think keeping it simple may be the best in order to allow more variety. The tunnel sequence doesn't seem to make sense
So thinking about what it could be for rather than what it should be for is still rather useful I think, even if only to avoid painting ourselves into a corner.

Clouds? What about moons?
Tunnel? What about external sites?

'Landing Gear Deployed', unberbelly shot (rather than pilot's view) of touchdown onto a plain grey surface for example.
3D grid terraine model zooming in to flat area in centre? Grid image randomised from a group of half a dozen terraine grids?

Technically, some asteroids are big enough to land on for example, do we want to include this option?
We don't need to implement it, we'd just need to leave room for it from a design standpoint.
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Re: Planetfall 2.0 (maybe)

Post by phkb »

Nite Owl wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 1:53 pm
Which of the many text to image A.I.'s did you use to get those images?
https://www.freepik.com/ai/image-editor
I signed up to FreePik for free. With the free account I can generate 20 AI images per day.

And for reference, the text I used for some of those images was "landing pad for a futuristic city"
Stormrider wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 6:10 pm
Authors should easily be able to create their own "landing sites" in order to create missions that take advantage of a docking experience that is not controlled by the galcop or limited to activities that could happen on a space station. I don't know if it is possible but it would be ideal if each landing site could be treated as an independent station with it's own market, allegiance, etc.
This is how it works in 2.0 (and is the same as the previous version). If you link into the system, your "station" landing site will have whatever you define in shipdata - allegiance, markets, shipyard, condition script, ship script, etc.
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Re: Planetfall 2.0 (maybe)

Post by phkb »

Because apparently I can't help myself: YouTube PlanetFall2 final landing sequence
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Re: Planetfall 2.0 (maybe)

Post by Redspear »

phkb wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:58 am
Because apparently I can't help myself: YouTube PlanetFall2 final landing sequence
Oddly specific, felt rushed (2 second limit) but...
Otherwise I really liked it :D

It does capture a descent as well as a landing I think - I don't recall any of the previous examples managing both

Also, it actually looked 'good', by which I mean made with quality components. The clouds were well done and the landing pad a good image.
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Re: Planetfall 2.0 (maybe)

Post by Redspear »

I've had another crazy idea :-P
I really like this one :D


Double Docking
(...bear with me)

initiate docking - atmospheric descent animation (e.g. clouds)

docked - auto launch (* see below for smoothing of rough edges); add marker to note that first docking was completed

auto-launch - horizontal atmospheric flight animation then auto-dock

auto-dock - read docking marker to enable switching to landing animation (e.g. landing pad approach); now docked as normal.


So I'm theoretically using the launch animation to double as an additional approach animation, changing the apparent animation time from 2 seconds to 6 seconds.

For launching it could still be just two seconds - space is comparitivel well realised.


* if the f5 screen (or similar) can't be completely avoided then substitute a mission screen with a suitable background image and a message of the 'permission to land' variety and Roberto is thine uncle.
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Re: Planetfall 2.0 (maybe)

Post by Stormrider »

Redspear wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:03 pm
Considering that option, we then might wish to remove the requirement for docking computers for example
Wouldn't this be a good risk factor to help balance any rewards the player might reap? In my experience the traffic on such routes is not as congested as the main lane so I think the risk may not be to great.
Redspear wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:03 pm
'Landing Gear Deployed', unberbelly shot (rather than pilot's view) of touchdown onto a plain grey surface for example.
3D grid terraine model zooming in to flat area in centre? Grid image randomised from a group of half a dozen terraine grids?
The problem with randomised imagery is that it is unlikely to match some planet descriptions and you might also want to consider other factors. Are you landing at a spaceport near a metropolitan area or in a remote field/meadow in order to extract an agent that's been compromised or commander that managed to land their escape pod in hostile territory? I might watch to many WW II docs and training films.
Moons without an atmosphere and the night side of planets are also worth considering as far as visual effects. How hard is it to query the game in order to determine that a player is on the night side of a planet?
Redspear wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:03 pm
Technically, some asteroids are big enough to land on for example, do we want to include this option?
I think this is best handled with the external docking feature, it might even be a viable solution for moons without atmosphere.
I do think it would be good if moons can be landed on in some way although I don't think all of them should have a site by default. Other than in more advanced systems I imagine moons and even secondary planets might only have a research station or mining outpost at best.
phkb wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:58 am
Because apparently I can't help myself
I think it looks really good, especially if the lighting can be adjusted to accommodate the difference between the day/night side of the planet. The landing pad sequence is good but I think some variation to accommodate the idea of undeveloped landing sites would be a beneficial addition if possible.
Will this require 1.91?
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Re: Planetfall 2.0 (maybe)

Post by phkb »

Stormrider wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:47 pm
Will this require 1.91?
I don't think I've used any 1.91 features, so no. 1.90 is the recommended version.
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Re: Planetfall 2.0 (maybe)

Post by Redspear »

Stormrider wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:47 pm
Redspear wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:03 pm
Considering that option, we then might wish to remove the requirement for docking computers for example
Wouldn't this be a good risk factor to help balance any rewards the player might reap? In my experience the traffic on such routes is not as congested as the main lane so I think the risk may not be to great.
I gave a bad example... I said a moon far from the main station which would of course mean away from the space lane and your critique is thus valid. I should have suggested the main planet (of another system) when wishing to avoid the main station.

Stormrider wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:47 pm
Redspear wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:03 pm
'Landing Gear Deployed', unberbelly shot (rather than pilot's view) of touchdown onto a plain grey surface for example.
3D grid terraine model zooming in to flat area in centre? Grid image randomised from a group of half a dozen terraine grids?
The problem with randomised imagery is that it is unlikely to match some planet descriptions and you might also want to consider other factors. Are you landing at a spaceport near a metropolitan area or in a remote field/meadow in order to extract an agent that's been compromised or commander that managed to land their escape pod in hostile territory? I might watch to many WW II docs and training films.
On the last point I'm not well placed to argue :D but on the others...

I gave two examples that you have quoted, only the second being randomised and the first merely being bland.
A grid, randomised or otherwise would be VERY bland in terms of features - like a close up computer image of the local topography with no other details. So just the geological topography of the landing site with no need for colour/facilities/local flavour. I should probably have linked to a sample image. I should probably have also included the word 'or'...

Stormrider wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:47 pm
Redspear wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:03 pm
Technically, some asteroids are big enough to land on for example, do we want to include this option?
I think this is best handled with the external docking feature, it might even be a viable solution for moons without atmosphere.
Maybe so. That's a new oxp that I'd missed until a few days ago. I should probably check it out at some point.
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Re: Planetfall 2.0 (maybe)

Post by cbr »

a] I believe there are camera.oxp 's. Could such a camera be place on the planet follow a ships descending...

b] Library has a demo which uses ships, moons, sounds, could this be used to land a ship on a planet...
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Re: Planetfall 2.0 (maybe)

Post by phkb »

cbr wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:58 pm
a] I believe there are camera.oxp 's. Could such a camera be place on the planet follow a ships descending...
I don't believe so, not without considerable rework. The current method is running an FX as a replacement to the normal docking FX. At that point, any camera view is unavailable.

To achieve what you're describing, the approach and camera shot would need to be performed *before* docking has commenced. You'd essentially be piloting the player ship with a script.
cbr wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:58 pm
b] Library has a demo which uses ships, moons, sounds, could this be used to land a ship on a planet...
I'd have to look at the demo again (it's been a while), but I believe it's doing all that work via a mission screen. Getting ships on a mission screen can only be done when you are docked, so, probably not in this case.
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Re: Planetfall 2.0 (maybe)

Post by phkb »

Stormrider wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:47 pm
I think this is best handled with the external docking feature, it might even be a viable solution for moons without atmosphere.
I am making heavy use of the External Dock System OXP to make this reworked PlanetFall do its thing. So, yes, it can be used in such a way, and I guess when I release this it will be the example to use for someone wanting to put a custom moon/asteroid in a system and add a landing point to it.
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Re: Planetfall 2.0 (maybe)

Post by phkb »

Redspear wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:39 pm
Double Docking (...bear with me)
A couple of things to note:
Any OXP that adds something to the arrival report (for example, Docking Fees), will have it's report shown after the first dock. Now, you can work around that to a degree, by suppressing arrival reports on the station (station.suppressArrivalReports = true), but you'd probably find that Docking fees runs twice, and thereby charging you twice, every time you land on a planet.

Also, I'm not 100% sure how escape capsules would be handled. Again, you can suppress arrival reports, but I think if you do, the capsule will be unloaded on the first dock, and you won't know how much bounty you get.

So, some challenges to work through to make it work seamlessly.
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Re: Planetfall 2.0 (maybe)

Post by Redspear »

phkb wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:33 pm
Redspear wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:39 pm
Double Docking (...bear with me)
A couple of things to note:
Thanks for considering...

phkb wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:33 pm
Any OXP that adds something to the arrival report (for example, Docking Fees), will have it's report shown after the first dock. Now, you can work around that to a degree, by suppressing arrival reports on the station (station.suppressArrivalReports = true), but you'd probably find that Docking fees runs twice, and thereby charging you twice, every time you land on a planet.
With regards the specific example (being charged twice) that's just a matter of maths isn't it? Check for change to credits and restore previous value?
As you say however, the effect would need to be known in order to be navigated around.

phkb wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:33 pm
Also, I'm not 100% sure how escape capsules would be handled. Again, you can suppress arrival reports, but I think if you do, the capsule will be unloaded on the first dock, and you won't know how much bounty you get.
You mean the player carrying escape pods rather than being in an escape pod?
Log the value and then relay it on a mission screen when they dock the second time.

phkb wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:33 pm
So, some challenges to work through to make it work seamlessly.
Could be trickier around some other mission screens however I grant you...


Core change perhaps?
Default tunnel effect set at 2 seconds but can be assigned a value of up to 10 when using a custom effect?
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Re: Planetfall 2.0 (maybe)

Post by Stormrider »

Redspear wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:01 pm
I said a moon far from the main station which would of course mean away from the space lane and your critique is thus valid. I should have suggested the main planet (of another system) when wishing to avoid the main station.
I still think it would be a good risk to help balance rewards, jumping to another system should be more profitable than staying in-system and there is a chance a damaged docking computer could be repaired at the main station. Maybe the player gets a time penalty or even fails the mission, but I think this might actually make such missions even more interesting.
Redspear wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:01 pm
I gave two examples that you have quoted, only the second being randomised and the first merely being bland.
A grid, randomised or otherwise would be VERY bland in terms of features - like a close up computer image of the local topography with no other details. So just the geological topography of the landing site with no need for colour/facilities/local flavour. I should probably have linked to a sample image. I should probably have also included the word 'or'...
I guess I wonder how much of the landing sequence we need to see. I am all for getting the most potential out of the game but I'm willing to let my own imagination deal with the details in order to avoid inconsistency. Others may be more willing to overlook some inconsistency in order to have a richer visual experience and maybe this is a good way to go. It seems like a lot of other games I've played tend to go with a reasonably interesting visualization when dealing with such transitions. Although some just use a "loading" graphic for them.
Perhaps all we need is a single reasonably rich sequence to represent all landings. The descent through the clouds in the last video is great. I am not sure the visual of coming down to the landing pad is needed but I am not opposed to it either.
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Re: Planetfall 2.0 (maybe)

Post by cbr »

Stormrider wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:47 pm

Perhaps all we need is a single reasonably rich sequence to represent all landings. The descent through the clouds in the last video is great. I am not sure the visual of coming down to the landing pad is needed but I am not opposed to it either.
Sometimes the 'clouds', sometimes the landing pad(s) in the current 'time' of both (eh :oops: )...
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