Gamergate

[ClymAngus]

This soooo, doesn't involve us it's not even funny.

I know it's rubber necking but I have been loosely following this and by good god it's all kicking off! Seriously Gamergate, give it a google: Pointless war at it's best.

But still I think that something could be learned by both sides (currently tearing each other a new one) by the progressive game model we have here as John Lennon probably wouldn't have said (because he was always a big picture kind of guy):

Imagine there no critics
It's easy if you try
No 5 stars to tempt us
No one payed to lie
Imagine all the people
Gaming all the day....

Imagine there's no finish
It isn't hard to do
No high score to kill for
And no Pvping too
Imagine all the people
building games in peace......

You may say I'm an ooliter
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
bespoke gaming, for everyone.

Imagine simply no genders
I wonder if you can
No lady or gentleman gaming
and no trolls to ban
Imagine all the players
Making all the game

You may say I'm an ooliter
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
bespoke game play, for everyone



Peace.

[Diziet Sma]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy


Damn..

<wonders what the fallout from this will be>

[ClymAngus]

I'm happy to watch the show and not get involved. It's a mess, a big fat wobbly one.
Fortunately this game is Teflon when it comes to this brand of racial/political/sexual/cronyistic fry up.

If I might add there are some industry professionals that love this? If this lot are busy, hacking, cross hacking and back hacking each other back into the stone age their not getting their jollies trying to break into media/gov/police etc sites.

It's like a public holiday for infrastructure.

[cim]

It's terrifying. Put something in a game, or a review of a game, or an academic study of games, that someone takes a dislike to - especially if you're a woman - and get a few hundred/thousand of the worst of the internet sending you graphic death threats including your address, digging up things you said five years ago which out of context could make you look bad, calling your employer to try to get you fired, and various other assaults.

Of course, that's been going on for a long time, but now they have a banner to organise themselves around it seems to be getting considerably more intense.

Fortunately this game is Teflon when it comes to this brand of racial/political/sexual/cronyistic fry up.

We get away without being attacked by them
- firstly and almost certainly most importantly through being sufficiently obscure not to be noticed. (And all that not having the time, energy or inclination to publicise Oolite more around the 1.80 release is suddenly feeling really prescient...)
- secondly by not having women as high profile members of the development team (which is not a good thing)
- thirdly because you can play the game without thinking about the political and social statements it makes (how many of those statements it intends to make, who knows...)

I don't think we should have any illusions about somehow being intrinsically safe from them. This is a game which set outs (in sparse fill-in-the-blanks outline, yes) a sufficiently detailed political and social sci-fi setting that it has a wide range of fiction written around it, covering highly sensitive political topics such as eugenics, genocide, the balance between individual rights and national/galactic security, torture and other abuse, the state creation of a criminal underclass, the morality of pre-emptive violence, slavery, and the glorification of the military. There are OXPs which make the outline political themes considerably more explicit in the game, too, and have been for years.

Coverage of racial/sexual issues ... not so much in the core game because there are no characters with a defined race in the 21st century sense of the word, and only one named character has a defined gender and it's not clear to me if they're supposed to or whether it's a typo (trivia question: which character is that, and where are they mentioned by name?). But, again, addressed in a variety of ways in Oofic and OXPs (and arguably some subtext on race even in the core game, if you want to read it that way).

That the GG movement is trying to drive artistic and political themes and criticism out of games and reviewing is appalling. (That this is their cover story for trying to drive women out of games and reviewing makes the whole thing even worse, of course) I would be delighted if someone else thought Oolite was worth reviewing from that angle - the diversity of portrayals of the Cooperative alone in Oofic shows that there's a lot of room for interpretation about the politics of the game, and I'd be really interested to hear how people from outside the immediate community thought about it. It'd be a far more interesting read than any of the reviews we've had so far.

I'm relieved that we're not currently involved, though since all that means is that they're going after someone else I can't say I'm happy about it. But I've been giving some thought as to whether it's time to quit writing games anyway, just in case.

[Cody]

To be honest, I've skimmed over all this during the last few weeks, but I have to admit it is worrying - very worrying!

[snip] But I've been giving some thought as to whether it's time to quit writing games anyway, just in case.

Hmm...

[Diziet Sma]

But I've been giving some thought as to whether it's time to quit writing games anyway, just in case.

Doing so, for those reasons, would mean they've already won.

[Wildeblood]

This is a game which set outs (in sparse fill-in-the-blanks outline, yes) a sufficiently detailed political and social sci-fi setting that it has a wide range of fiction written around it, covering highly sensitive political topics such as eugenics, genocide, the balance between individual rights and national/galactic security, torture and other abuse, the state creation of a criminal underclass, the morality of pre-emptive violence, slavery, and the glorification of the military. There are OXPs which make the outline political themes considerably more explicit in the game, too, and have been for years.

I'm reasonably familiar with Oolite, having played it in the past, and I don't perceive any of that. To my mind it's as close to a blank slate as you could have and still have a functioning game. The only way you could make it less political would be to sanitize descriptions.plist to the point that it displayed "economy level 1", "government style 4", etc. in game.

I have noticed in the past that you, cim, seem to angst about the presence of "slaves" on the f8 screen in a way no-one else seems to.

Of course I don't know what's in all that oofic, having never read any. Devs should ignore it, too. A game should stand on its own, entire unto itself. If I have to do background reading to understand the game, the game design is broken.

[Ranthe]

Coverage of racial/sexual issues ... not so much in the core game because there are no characters with a defined race in the 21st century sense of the word, and only one named character has a defined gender and it's not clear to me if they're supposed to or whether it's a typo (trivia question: which character is that, and where are they mentioned by name?).

<nods> Not to mention that the core universe is populated with a variety of species where humans rub appendages with Felines, Lobstoids, Bony Birds and the like...

I'm relieved that we're not currently involved, though since all that means is that they're going after someone else I can't say I'm happy about it.

<nods again> I've been reading various tech articles on the subject of GG and I have to say I'm utterly appalled at the misogynous behaviour being exhibited by these... <phrase for bodily orifice>s. It's horrifying and utterly indefensible. Especially when it involves death threats over criticising games!

[ClymAngus]

You've made some important points here cim that are worth looking into.

I am not for one second condoning the rampant invasion of privacy we have seen
over the past few days. If there is any case to answer the arguments need to be
conducted, honestly and in a reasoned manner. As soon as you employ tactics
designed to terrorize people into silence you have lost the moral high ground.

This tarred brush has been used liberally now by both sides.

Firstly I wholeheartedly agree that sticking colours to masts invites trouble.
No one can speak for Oolite for no one person really is oolite. We all are. We
are quiet group who just get our jollies polishing up and repairing and old game.

We're like an engineering club for old retired duffers. Not very political at
the best of times.

I say we're Teflon because all the causes used as a good reason to D.I.P.
someone. Slide off oolite. Is it sexist? How sexist is a spaceship? Ok apart
from the one I designed that looks like a giant flying cock (take your
inspiration from nature, it's air o dynamic). If any oxp's exist that are racist
or sexist or any other ist then edit them yourself or remove them from your package.

Do we pay off critics to give favourable reviews of our game? Nope.

I suppose the WORST that could happen is you get someone wanting to vet oxps on
content grounds. But even then people would simply find ways round it. It's
floppy disks in the playground all over again.

As for the fiction well, the author has to take responsibility for their own
work. Fundamentally you are correct however. We are a happy few, quietly
bumbling around polishing fins and adjusting engine alignments. There is no gain
to be had by running a cement truck of double think through our little world.

It is too much effort to do so. Our obscurity is our sanctuary.

[Tricky]

I say we're Teflon because all the causes used as a good reason to D.I.P.
someone. Slide off oolite. Is it sexist? How sexist is a spaceship? Ok apart
from the one I designed that looks like a giant flying cock (take your
inspiration from nature, it's air o dynamic).

Reminds me of an Iain M Banks Culture novel, Excession I think, the shape of the ships are rarely described. One Special Circumstances ship is described as looking like a "dildo", very apt as "it could fuck up star systems."

[CommRLock78]

<Walks in, looks around>
This looks like a mess. I don't think I'd touch it either.

[Wildeblood]

<Walks in, looks around>
This looks like a mess. I don't think I'd touch it either.

That explains why my bedroom never gets tidied, but not why teh interwebs are full of agro. The video gaming industry is now huge, worth billions, so it should not surprise that the same ruthlessness present in other multi-billion dollar, multi-national industries exists.

[Ranthe]

We're like an engineering club for old retired duffers. [...] We are a happy few, quietly bumbling around polishing fins and adjusting engine alignments.

<retires to the galley, returns with a tray of cheese and onion club sandwiches and piping hot sausage rolls>

[ClymAngus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr2JPjhtGZA

So the comedy begins.......

[Astrobe]

Slavery is good in Oolite. It lets you play with your ethics without hurting anyone (of course it assumes that one has ethics in the first place). That's what a game is for.

From what I understand from this controversy, Oolite should be immune from it because it's not a commercial game. That's why I'm turning more and more to free, open source games: the usual problems related to video games as "products" are far less likely to happen. I'm willing to "pay" slightly outdated graphics or engines for that. Building high-spec machines just to run the latest games with top-notch features can turn video games into an expensive hobby.

As for the rest, I see the Oolite community as being more mature than others. So I'm quite confident it will find the right answers should it ever have to.