Hiring crew oxp

[jeffron]

Forgive me if there's already a topic for this, there are alot of threads... I think an oxp for hiring crew of a few specified types who would each add attributes to your shipwould be fun, ie. something like but not limited to: Engineer, (of various calibers and wage expectations) increase speed and or an energy variable; a gunner would make your laser hit harder? A miner could get more from asteroids...That's all I got on that one not much but a thought.

[Paradox]

Forgive me if there's already a topic for this, there are alot of threads... I think an oxp for hiring crew of a few specified types who would each add attributes to your shipwould be fun, ie. something like but not limited to: Engineer, (of various calibers and wage expectations) increase speed and or an energy variable; a gunner would make your laser hit harder? A miner could get more from asteroids...That's all I got on that one not much but a thought.

I am pretty sure this has indeed been brought up before (possibly more than once...), but I was just thinking about this too the other dayas well, and I agree, I think it's a brilliant idea.

First Officer = Maybe further boosts the stats that the other crew members give?
Weapons Officer = As you said, perhaps stronger/faster lasers/missiles, and/or faster cool down?
Navigations Officer = More efficient jumps (less fuel used) and/or increase jump distance? Can get us out of witchspace malfunction?
Engineering Officer = "Scotty, we need more speed!" And fixes things when they get broken. Maybe also need for the witchspace thing...
Comms Officer = Responsible for relaying planet info. Maybe gets us better prices on goods?
Science Officer = Would be a good one for mining I think... Better yield on asteroids.

And as you said, there should be different "grades" the higher the grade, the better at their job, and also the higher their pay would need to be...
Please one of you brilliant coders do something with this!

[Pleb]

Although this is a good idea, I think there's only supposed to be enough room in the cockpit for one person. I suppose larger ships could have a crew (they did in Frontier) but certain ships like the Mamba and Sidewinder wouldn't require a crew, and neither would the Cobra Mk 1 and Mk3. But there's nothing stopping you from making an OXP that involves crew, just as long as it has a certain amount of realism and accepts certain ships don't need crew.



Here's some fan art of a Cobra 3 interior, that actually has two seats in the cockpit! Although this was Frontier-inspired I believe...

[Cody]

The Cobra Mk III was always capable of having two crew.

[Paradox]

If you're a "hard core" Elite fan, and don't use any oxps, then you wouldn't download it in the first place. But for those of us who likes us some non-core ships, we have plenty of room for crew, cuz you know... it's always party time on the bridge of the Atlas!

Sounds like something to maybe add to the shipdata.plist as well, the maximum number of crew that can be hired. That would force commanders to think about what positions they need to hire...

[Cody]

As mentioned (I think), this idea has been around before, and all prospective large crew lists forget to include a cook/mess steward.

[Stormrider]

I thought about trying to make a tune up oxp so you could basically upgrade the ship at specific bases located only in certain systems and only after you do a few mission to establish a reputation with them.

Might as well fill that extra seat in the cobra anyway, but I don't need Berf telling me my laser needs to cool down, I need him to shoot the tail gun. It would be cool to have different levels of copilot competence, "Really Berf! Break any more equipment and I'm gonna maroon you at the rock hermit I find." Maybe even a shady character senario, Galcop policy obviously restricts unlicensed personel being transported in the cockpit, but some beings might feel the need to travel more incognito. "Besides fitting a berth won't give us enough time to esc.. I mean take advantage of the profit to be made on your goods"
"Of course my credentials are legit."

A cook hmm, I was thinking a bbq would be a great way to make trundles tasty.

[Thargoid]

It's a nice idea (and has indeed been discussed before). The problem is that some of the improvements proposed (increased max speed, longer jumps) can't be done by OXP as they're either explicitly limited in trunk code, or are set in shipdata and are read-only).

But some of the above like the mining increase and maybe adding some fuel back after a jump (to simulate a more economic jump) could be done, within the 7ly absolute limit.

[Smivs]

The problem is that some of the improvements proposed (increased max speed, longer jumps) can't be done by OXP as they're either explicitly limited in trunk code, or are set in shipdata and are read-only).

Which is how it should be! These things are limited by (ahem) physics and engineering, not piloting skill, and after all, You are the pilot/Captain, so it's up to you how well or not the ship is run.
All the ships are capable of one-man operation, so strictly no crew is necessary. Having said that, it gets pretty lonely out there, and a helping hand would be welcome often, so having a small crew is a nice idea.
However, to 'work' in the game (and within the game with its limitations) the crew would have to be decorative rather functional. So no 'improvements in performance' but more back-chat and interaction is the way to go with this I think.

[Norby]

Nice idea with many thinkable parts. We should stay within the possibilities of OXPs (for example laser cooling is fixed), but the possible changes are discussable.

The crew includuing the Commander can receive injuries. First level is marginal: still can do his work but with weaker efficiency (cook make a cup of tea slower ). Second is hard but rare: forced to stop working and pay for medical healing in the next station. Third is fatal but very rare.

If all members got hard injuries then nobody can pilot the ship so autopilot turn on to fly into a station (with locked controls) and if energy is low then launch the Escape Pod. You should hire a Doctor who sometimes can heal a hard injury up to the marginal level so you will lose the control less often.

I think the easiest way to make these if specific berths of crew members are placed into the  equipment list with low damage_probability values.

[Paradox]

I was reading the Ships Cat oxp thread and remembered this one. So I am bumping it. I would REALLY like to see something done with this please!...?

[mossfoot]

Agreed. Would like to see this happen. But perhaps there is a couple of ways to look at this?


Perhaps a special "Co-pilot" that only applies to non-crewed ships? So a Cobra, Adder, Krait, etc... can have a co-pilot only, while a Boa, Anaconda, Python, etc... have a crew?

Fighters and fighter/traders vs all fully staffed cargo haulers might be determined in-game by cargo size? There is a bit of a jump between most fighter/traders and cargo haulers, so maybe a 100TC mark? Or maybe all ships would be assumed to be "Co-pilot only" by default unless otherwise designated?

Also, if you want to see this as money sink, and perhaps a more "realistic" point of view for it, perhaps the crew doesn't actually make the big ships better - they simply make it run the way it's supposed to. A full crew=normal performance. A skeleton crew (ie you) = reduced performance.

(this also means if you also want to have your ship performance enhanced - an idea I love - the "pimp my ride" thread is still relevant https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16543 )

As crew is injured or killed, stats get affected (speed for engineer, damage or weapons overheating for weapons officer, etc...). This could be cool visualized in a desperate battle where only the captain is left on the bridge as the ship is falling apart as a Thargoid makes a final run at you, then limping home afterwards.

(If you want to mourn the dead, have every dead crewmember become a special "empty" cargopod - space allowing - which are first in line to be jettisoned on your manifest, so you can "bury" them en-route to the sun )


But on the opposite end, I wonder how a simple "co-pilot" could affect the smaller ships? You'd want them to be more than a beer cooler, but logically they wouldn't have the same benefit (necessity) as a crew on a larger ship. Perhaps a chance to change destroyed equipment into damaged instead and reduced maintenance overhauls? I'm sure a perk can be thought that would make them relevant while not filling the same role as a proper crew.

[Cmdr Wyvern]

Kraits, Mambas, Sidewinders. Geckos, Cobra 1s, are small, single-seat fighters. Of those only the cobra 1 is known to mount a witchdrive.

Cobra 3s, Asps, possibly Adders are two-seaters; A co-pilot is optional in a Cobra 3 and maybe Adders, mandatory in Asps.

For heavier ships, I point you to the Elite manual which listed all the ships ingame, including stats and crew.

As a sidenote, in FFE they wouldn't let you launch without hiring crew. Said crew didn't do anything, except collect a paycheck every week of flight time.

[Paradox]

Agreed. Would like to see this happen. But perhaps there is a couple of ways to look at this?


Perhaps a special "Co-pilot" that only applies to non-crewed ships? So a Cobra, Adder, Krait, etc... can have a co-pilot only, while a Boa, Anaconda, Python, etc... have a crew?

Fighters and fighter/traders vs all fully staffed cargo haulers might be determined in-game by cargo size? There is a bit of a jump between most fighter/traders and cargo haulers, so maybe a 100TC mark? Or maybe all ships would be assumed to be "Co-pilot only" by default unless otherwise designated?

That's why I specified that shipdata.plists would need a new entry to specify how many crew could be hired for each ship.

Also, if you want to see this as money sink, and perhaps a more "realistic" point of view for it, perhaps the crew doesn't actually make the big ships better - they simply make it run the way it's supposed to. A full crew=normal performance. A skeleton crew (ie you) = reduced performance.

(this also means if you also want to have your ship performance enhanced - an idea I love - the "pimp my ride" thread is still relevant https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16543 )

As crew is injured or killed, stats get affected (speed for engineer, damage or weapons overheating for weapons officer, etc...). This could be cool visualized in a desperate battle where only the captain is left on the bridge as the ship is falling apart as a Thargoid makes a final run at you, then limping home afterwards.

(If you want to mourn the dead, have every dead crewmember become a special "empty" cargopod - space allowing - which are first in line to be jettisoned on your manifest, so you can "bury" them en-route to the sun )


But on the opposite end, I wonder how a simple "co-pilot" could affect the smaller ships? You'd want them to be more than a beer cooler, but logically they wouldn't have the same benefit (necessity) as a crew on a larger ship. Perhaps a chance to change destroyed equipment into damaged instead and reduced maintenance overhauls? I'm sure a perk can be thought that would make them relevant while not filling the same role as a proper crew.

The problem with doing it this way (starts at 100%, degrades as crew is lost.) is that it forces the Elite Purists to use crews as well. Everyone will have to have a "crew" if they want their ships at 100%. Make it an upgrade however, and only those who wish it, need download it...

I would like to go to the F-4 screen on station, and see an option for Hire Crew. Crew can be one of 3 ranks/grades. 1st most expensive and a veteran, 2nd median, and 3rd lowest (or visa versa, whatever.).
Then, as stated before...

First Officer = Maybe further boosts the stats that the other crew members give?
Weapons Officer = stronger/faster lasers/missiles, and/or faster cool down? (why is laser cool down hard coded?)
Navigations Officer = More efficient jumps (less fuel used)? More efficient torus drive? Can get us out of witchspace malfunction? (why is 7 light year max hard coded?)
Engineering Officer = "Scotty, we need more speed!" And fixes things when they get broken. Maybe also need for the witchspace thing...
Comms Officer = Responsible for relaying planet info. Maybe gets us better prices on goods?
Science Officer = Would be a good one for mining I think... Better yield on asteroids.

This will also bring an entirely new element of strategy to the game. Do you hire a weapons specialist to upgrade your weapons, , or an engineer to keep things running if they break.

A lot of what I propose is already being done in OXPs as it is... There is an OXP to "rotate" your lasers, and RepairBots to fix damaged ship components (works great with the "Breakable" line of OXPs). We have OXPs that decrease fuel consumption in our torus drives etc...

I am just proposing something more flexible, that offers more choices/startegies, and makes more sense (at least to me), as well as keep the purists happy...

[Paradox]

Kraits, Mambas, Sidewinders. Geckos, Cobra 1s, are small, single-seat fighters. Of those only the cobra 1 is known to mount a witchdrive.

Cobra 3s, Asps, possibly Adders are two-seaters; A co-pilot is optional in a Cobra 3 and maybe Adders, mandatory in Asps.

For heavier ships, I point you to the Elite manual which listed all the ships ingame, including stats and crew.

As a sidenote, in FFE they wouldn't let you launch without hiring crew. Said crew didn't do anything, except collect a paycheck every week of flight time.

But you are only talking about core ships... There are those of us who prefer the more "modern" ship designs ala oxps, and have plenty of room for a crew! };]