To Newt or Oolute?

[Alex]

There are so many discussions on the physics of Oolite.
I thought I'd ask.
There was a version of Elite using newtonian physics, I played it for a few hours before literaly throwing the disc in the bin with the thought 'What a waste of a great game'.
About 20 or so years later.
Oolite. WOW.
I like the physics as they are but reverse would be nice. I wont be upgrading my version if the torus drive is scraped, not even to get a reverse gear. And always found the time dialation to be a pain to manage.
Works for me the way it is. Ain't broken so don't need fixin!
But then I'm very biased about my fun games.
Maybe I should have made the newtonian options non votable
I don't actually know how to do that

[Smivs]

Well I voted for Oolite as it is.
It's crazy and un-explainable and as un-realistic as you can get, but it's what I'm used to and I just love it to bits!

[Gimi]

I'm probably a bit thick, but could you explain what you mean by reverse gear. Do you mean the ability to move backwards with front thruster?

[Alex]

Hi Gimi,
Yes just like in a car reverse, go backwards but with less power/speed than forward.
More like a jet plane landing, no actual reverse just redirection of engine energy.
Ever found yourself so close to an object that anything you do will cause "Press Space"?
A reverse would be nice then.
Maybe not so much like a car but more like a plane.
Jets just deploy a couple of scoops in the thrust area to redirect, that's why you hear the engines reving up once they are on the ground and slowing.
This is never enough to get the jet plane to actually reverse. There are almost no jet planes that can reverse, The Hawker jump jet is the only one that comes to mind. Though there are a few turbo prop planes that can.
The only one I've actually seen do it is the Dash 27, can't remember who makes it. But is reputed to be able to stop on landing in just a couple of it's own body lengths, heard it stuffs up the engines though. Still they don't actually put the engine in reverse, just negitive pitch on the blades.
Imagine a lubed up pilot doing that in flight.
A bit like trying to fly a chopper upside down in straight level flight.
How a reverse in Oolite would work, mmm, well there's another physics discussion.
Preferably in oolutian physics, where there are no set 'laws' of physics.

[Alex]

Well I voted for Oolite as it is.
It's crazy and un-explainable and as un-realistic as you can get, but it's what I'm used to and I just love it to bits!

I agree, when I think about it.
The number of times I've thought "Where D'F is the reverse on this ship" Is minuscule to the other "Press Space" commands I've played through.
So I now select "As Is".

By the way I made it so you can change your vote.

[Ganelon]

Bah, we don't need Newton. He's got plenty of other games he can be in, anyway.

Reverse, well.. I don't feel a lot of need for reverse in the same sense as we have forward thrust. Maybe some sort of pushback where a button could nudge the ship back slightly, that could be neat. Mostly, we'd be wanting that if the docking became more complicated or something, though. Like if we had to move the ship through a docking or launch facility or something like that, then at least a little bit of reverse could become useful.

[Gimi]

Bah, we don't need Newton. He's got plenty of other games he can be in, anyway.

Reverse, well.. I don't feel a lot of need for reverse in the same sense as we have forward thrust. Maybe some sort of pushback where a button could nudge the ship back slightly, that could be neat. Mostly, we'd be wanting that if the docking became more complicated or something, though. Like if we had to move the ship through a docking or launch facility or something like that, then at least a little bit of reverse could become useful.

Navigating tunnels in an asteroid to reach the Secret Base of the Dark Wheel.

[Killer Wolf]

Amiga Elite had retro rockets as an equipment. they were pretty good, you could face an oncoming group of ships and fire at them then when they were getting too close hit the retro and zap backwards to give yourself more shooting time w/out having to turn/flee/reacquire. also good for those manual docking moments when something goes horribly wrong like a big effing python launching just as you're closing in to dock.

[Bugbear]

Newtonian vs non-newtonian..gotta admit each scratches a different itch.

If I want to play Newtonian, I go to Pioneer - great for planet exploring but I just can't get the hang of fighting on a 3D ice rink.

(edit: a beautiful game would be Oolite's physics and scales, combined with Pioneer's algorithmic planetary system generation, with real landing on planets)

Dogfighting is one of Oolites great strengths, and so is the screwed up sense of scale. From a scientific point of view it's jarring, but from a game play point of view, it just works.

I had reservations about losing the Torus drive in favour of TAF, but Ahruman's argument has won me over i.e. TAF allows means that we don't have to avoid the other ships in the Ooniverse in the way that Torus forces us to. TAF means that we can interact with the other ships much more, and that's great for immersion.

Sorry if I've gone a bit off topic with my rant, but there it is.

[DaddyHoggy]

Hi Gimi,
Yes just like in a car reverse, go backwards but with less power/speed than forward.
More like a jet plane landing, no actual reverse just redirection of engine energy.
Ever found yourself so close to an object that anything you do will cause "Press Space"?
A reverse would be nice then.
Maybe not so much like a car but more like a plane.
Jets just deploy a couple of scoops in the thrust area to redirect, that's why you hear the engines reving up once they are on the ground and slowing.
This is never enough to get the jet plane to actually reverse. There are almost no jet planes that can reverse, The Hawker jump jet is the only one that comes to mind. Though there are a few turbo prop planes that can.
The only one I've actually seen do it is the Dash 27, can't remember who makes it. But is reputed to be able to stop on landing in just a couple of it's own body lengths, heard it stuffs up the engines though. Still they don't actually put the engine in reverse, just negitive pitch on the blades.
Imagine a lubed up pilot doing that in flight.
A bit like trying to fly a chopper upside down in straight level flight.
How a reverse in Oolite would work, mmm, well there's another physics discussion.
Preferably in oolutian physics, where there are no set 'laws' of physics.

No such aircraft - you could have had the Hawker Siddeley Harrier at some point in it's past - but as we scrapped the "Harrier Jump Jet" (the aircraft carrier version) several years ago, and the rest of RAF Harrier Fleet (GR7/9) a few months ago, you'd have to go be nice to the US Marine Corp and borrow some AV-8s instead.

Writing this makes me sad...

You could go and grab yourself some Boeing Osprey's too. But we're not buying the VTOL version of JSF any more (which might have sort have been able to fly backwards) that aircraft might never be built because the cost of that has made the per unit cost of the USMC version possibly too expensive even for them (the USMC is understandably unimpressed by the Brits at this point in time)

[Switeck]

Newtonian physics for spacecraft don't make sense in a sci-fi realm as futuristic as Oolite's universe. Just to do a complete turn-around at 10% the speed of light would take WEEKS to avoid >10 g loads on the spacecraft and all its occupants. The turning radius might be as large as Pluto's orbit around the Sun as well.

[Capt. Murphy]

To the tune of..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCARADb9asE

Ooliteering across the Ooniverse, only going forward cos Giles did not code reverse...!

[DaddyHoggy]

Newtonian vs non-newtonian..gotta admit each scratches a different itch.

If I want to play Newtonian, I go to Pioneer - great for planet exploring but I just can't get the hang of fighting on a 3D ice rink.

(edit: a beautiful game would be Oolite's physics and scales, combined with Pioneer's algorithmic planetary system generation, with real landing on planets)

Dogfighting is one of Oolites great strengths, and so is the screwed up sense of scale. From a scientific point of view it's jarring, but from a game play point of view, it just works.

I had reservations about losing the Torus drive in favour of TAF, but Ahruman's argument has won me over i.e. TAF allows means that we don't have to avoid the other ships in the Ooniverse in the way that Torus forces us to. TAF means that we can interact with the other ships much more, and that's great for immersion.

Sorry if I've gone a bit off topic with my rant, but there it is.

You can't have Oolite's scales and Pioneer's "real" landings on planets - because Oolite's planets are only 30Km across and it would be obvious as you overflew the surface!

[JensAyton]

You can't have Oolite's scales and Pioneer's "real" landings on planets - because Oolite's planets are only 30Km across and it would be obvious as you overflew the surface!

To be fair, they’re at least as big as the ones in Spore.

[CommonSenseOTB]

Amiga Elite had retro rockets as an equipment. they were pretty good, you could face an oncoming group of ships and fire at them then when they were getting too close hit the retro and zap backwards to give yourself more shooting time w/out having to turn/flee/reacquire. also good for those manual docking moments when something goes horribly wrong like a big effing python launching just as you're closing in to dock.

I used to play Amiga Elite back in the day. I used to use retros when the Wolf MkII's caught up with me. Pitch up a little and hit retros when they are close enough. The result was the Wolf was now in front of me at a good dogfighting distance. This would work nicely in oolite but I would want it for the npc's as well. Would make dogfights very interesting.