The Oolite Extended Project - Fork, no oxp

Screet · Post by **Screet** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:35 pm

Lestradae wrote:
is the "." really irritating? I assumed that anyone who had bought any equipment would have a vague idea what it costs and would naturally take the "." as a symbol for "thousand".

The problem is that it's used for two different reasons in that case. Maybe use a "," instead?

Lestradae wrote:
Have you already visited OoBay? How do you find this feature?

Not yet...only managed one flight since updating

I found some new station around the planet, but did dock and check emails first...

EDIT: Now I had a look...those flashers on the nodes are REALLY bright! However, when I tried to get close manually, I heard bangs from impact. I then tried the DC which did attempt to dock me at a node but caused a "press space" moment...

Screet

Diziet Sma · Post by **Diziet Sma** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:40 pm

Lestradae wrote:
Hey Screet,

is the "." really irritating? I assumed that anyone who had bought any equipment would have a vague idea what it costs and would naturally take the "." as a symbol for "thousand".

Does anyone else have an opinion about this? I can change it easily, just found it more understandable, myself, with the ".".

L

Normal English usage, (or at least, non-European) would be to use a comma instead of a period to denote the thousands position.. or to omit it altogether.. English, Australian and American people tend to find the use of a period in this manner rather confusing actually.. we would expect to see something more like 1,234,567,890.00

Screet · Post by **Screet** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:43 pm

Hmmm. From the log, there's a little problem with one of the RMB missiles:

Code: Select all

[script.javaScript.exception.39]: ***** JavaScript exception ("rmb-law-missile-script" 1.0): TypeError: this.ship.target has no properties
[script.javaScript.exception.39]:       ../AddOns/A - Oolite Shipyards Extension WiP V0.45.oxp/Scripts/rmb-law-missile-script.js, line 8.

I think I've seen such messages also in the past from some other equipment. Should have either been the bounty scanner or target auto-lock, but I'm not sure

EDIT: Sorry, confused it a bit. The other message from auto-lock is

Code: Select all

[script.javaScript.exception.39]: ***** JavaScript exception ("targetAutolock" 1.0): TypeError: attacker has no properties
[script.javaScript.exception.39]:       ../AddOns/Target Autolock 1.00.oxp/Config/script.js, line 9.

Screet

Nemoricus · Post by **Nemoricus** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:51 pm

Diziet Sma wrote:
Normal English usage, (or at least, non-European) would be to use a comma instead of a period to denote the thousands position.. or to omit it altogether.. English, Australian and American people tend to find the use of a period in this manner rather confusing actually.. we would expect to see something more like 1,234,567,890.00

Indeed. Also, internal consistency is important. Oolite uses a '.' to denote decimal points. Therefore, it is assumed that any '.' in a number is marking one. I would suggest omitting the '.' entirely except as a decimal point marker.

JensAyton · Post by **JensAyton** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:01 pm

Lestradae wrote:
Hey Screet,

is the "." really irritating? I assumed that anyone who had bought any equipment would have a vague idea what it costs and would naturally take the "." as a symbol for "thousand". :?

Certainly no native English speaker would.

Post by **Cmdr James** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:14 pm

I would strongly suggest, due to differences in handling, that unless there is an easy way to use local settings, that either the thousand separator is removed completely, or a space is used.

Website · Post by **DaddyHoggy** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:38 pm

Lestradae wrote:
Have you already visited OoBay? How do you find this feature?

Oobay? Really? Does this mean one of my throw-it-to-the-wind-and-see-if-it-has-wings ideas has been picked up and implemented? If yes -

Lestradae · Post by **Lestradae** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:32 pm

Hi guys,

I am indeed not a native english speaker - in german the "." is obviously between thousands & hundreds. Oh, well. If all things were so easy: I will simply take the offending dot out from the sell numbers

@Screet:

Concerning your docking troubles, which ship are you having them with? I managed to dock at the OoBay Nodes with Condors, Dredgers, Juggernauts and even a Constitution. With those really big ships you have to be a bit careful and approach the node slowly from above as if you wanted to scoop it, but with my trusty Tiger Mk I for example I can dock by going at the node with injectors burning ...

If port radius etc. are still not big enough for some ships I can make them bigger.

Oh, yes, and the law-missile

I am afraid there might be further script troubles with NPC ships using missiles scripted for players. Will have a look into this, if my suspicion is correct.

@DaddyHoggy:

Really!

Indeed, near the main station area there are now the OoBay Auction Stations with their 26 (!) Cargo Transfer Nodes. The station itself is visible from the main one and targeted with "O" on the scanner. The nodes are bright scintillating beacon points for loading & unloading of cargo arranged in a cube around the actual auction station.

Every node can be docked at and you can buy & sell 63 units from any commodity at its standard system price there. At every node. Meaning that if you bought an Anaconda, beyond doing trading runs you can now fill the hold with 750 tons of furs at Lave and sell all 750 tons of furs at Zaonce - ships with big cargo holds now really make different profit from smaller ones.

The idea happened because Oolite's trading quantities are basically derived from a game where the max cargo you could have was 35 tons. My girlfriend actually suggested "OoBay" and I did remember that this was already suggested on the boards, too.

If you want to have a look, DH, by all means have one

Cheers

L

EDIT: He he, done. Fastest "bugfix" ever . I hereby proudly present the "." patch. Download from here: http://www.box.net/shared/static/13avvvxv7y.plist ... and drop into the Config folder, say yes to overwrite, press shift next time, you know the drill. And gone the non-english "."

Screet · Post by **Screet** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:01 pm

Lestradae wrote:
Concerning your docking troubles, which ship are you having them with? I managed to dock at the OoBay Nodes with Condors, Dredgers, Juggernauts and even a Constitution. With those really big ships you have to be a bit careful and approach the node slowly from above as if you wanted to scoop it, but with my trusty Tiger Mk I for example I can dock by going at the node with injectors burning ...

I was using a Caduceus, but as I did not know how to dock with it, I approached it the same as the fuel satellites. Ran into it on very low speed, minimal shield damage, but no docking. I then turned away a little and enabled the DC which crashed my ship into the node.

Reading your post, I tried again. Approaching it from above did the trick

What I did not expect was the massive price difference - in the system where I was, I could buy furs for 30Cr less than at the main station, platinum at 12Cr less. I did expect the same prices as at the main station, not sure if the difference is intended?
EDIT: After jumping I got the strange impression that the prices from the local Oobar were the same as those for my witchspace target system - although I cannot imagine how such a thing could happen. Coincidence?!?

Screet

Lestradae · Post by **Lestradae** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:20 pm

Screet wrote:
I was using a Caduceus, but as I did not know how to dock with it, I approached it the same as the fuel satellites. ... Reading your post, I tried again. Approaching it from above did the trick

Happy to hear that - btw, also smaller ships can use the OoBay nodes for trading, just have to trade in something lighter than tons

Screet wrote:
What I did not expect was the massive price difference - in the system where I was, I could buy furs for 30Cr less than at the main station, platinum at 12Cr less. I did expect the same prices as at the main station, not sure if the difference is intended?

That is actually rather weird, as the OoBay nodes' commodities.plist entries for everything but quantity are a simple copy & paste job from Oolite's very own "Resources" folder - so the prices, give or take a few percent, should basically be nearly identical to the main station's prices.

Can you recheck this? Haven't encountered that as yet, and shouldn't be possible to happen as far as I think I understand how price calculation is done ...

L

Re: EDIT:

Screet wrote:
EDIT: After jumping I got the strange impression that the prices from the local Oobar were the same as those for my witchspace target system - although I cannot imagine how such a thing could happen. Coincidence?!?

That would imho indicate one hell of a bug in Oolite itself - but one I have never come across while testing. As I said, the OoBay nodes' commodities plists are completely identical to the main station standard ones except for the fixed, maximised quantities.

Screet · Post by **Screet** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:03 pm

Lestradae wrote:
[Can you recheck this? Haven't encountered that as yet, and shouldn't be possible to happen as far as I think I understand how price calculation is done ...

OK, the price for the goods I checked the first time must have been a lucky hit concerning those of the next system I went to.

All nodes do have different prices for the goods. I checked two, and both times furs did cost >70Cr while they did cost 59Cr at the main station...might be normal price range and big luck that I had such a big difference before.

However, I lost two more ships while attempting to dock at the nodes.

Screet

Website · Post by **DaddyHoggy** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:44 pm

Lestradae wrote:
@DaddyHoggy:

Really! Very Happy

Indeed, near the main station area there are now the OoBay Auction Stations with their 26 (!) Cargo Transfer Nodes. The station itself is visible from the main one and targeted with "O" on the scanner. The nodes are bright scintillating beacon points for loading & unloading of cargo arranged in a cube around the actual auction station.

Every node can be docked at and you can buy & sell 63 units from any commodity at its standard system price there. At every node. Meaning that if you bought an Anaconda, beyond doing trading runs you can now fill the hold with 750 tons of furs at Lave and sell all 750 tons of furs at Zaonce - ships with big cargo holds now really make different profit from smaller ones.

The idea happened because Oolite's trading quantities are basically derived from a game where the max cargo you could have was 35 tons. My girlfriend actually suggested "OoBay" and I did remember that this was already suggested on the boards, too.

If you want to have a look, DH, by all means have one Very Happy

That sounds fantastic - I think I may have a higher resolution version of the Oobay logo if you're interested.

My home PC definitely won't cope with OSE but once the XPS 1730 is configured as per my boss's desires and I've got all his apps on board I will be able to to sneak Oolite plus OSE (plus everything else!) on to it - and I'll put them SLI'd 9800GT Ms to work!

Lestradae · Post by **Lestradae** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:07 pm

So ...

@Cmdr James: The thousand separator has been removed completely.

@Screet: The prices seem to be calculated differently for each node, but the oscillations should be within random range for the given system. If from time to time in-system trading opportunities arise from that (narcotics i.e.) so be it. But usually they should be similar enough (including those from the main station) that the whole construct works. I hope.

The crashing ships issue is really strange. The nodes have the following entry in shipdata.plist:

<key>port_dimensions</key>
<string>10000x10000x10000</string>
<key>port_radius</key>
<integer>10000</integer>

Actually, the ships should dock even earlier than they do as far as I understand. Could this be a problem with the caduceus' turrets, similar to the fuel station one? A bit clueless atm.

And then the issue with the Gal Cop pirates. Again. Strange thing is - they have:

<key>roles</key>
<string>interceptor wingman beyonderpolicetiger</string>

... but the [dumpState] you sent me says:

[dumpState.shipEntity]: Roles: <OORoleSet 0x10194ac8>{beyonderpolicetiger
escort interceptor wingman}

Where does the escort role suddenly come from? You didn't tweak your shipdata.plist, did you? The escort role that led to these pirates shouldn't be in there!

Could it be that wingmen which lose their mother can be taken up as escorts from someone else, even pirates? I would consider that unwanted behaviour, no idea if it's at all possible. But the only explanation I can imagine atm.

@DaddyHoggy: The HD logo for OoBay would be very welcome

Should be no problem to put a YAH signpost near or even onto the Auction Station. And it would most definitely fit.

Looking forwards to your testing of this meta-oxp. It seems to be less error-prone and more stable than RS ever was already, so I guess I don't have to advise against playing standard game with this in so strictly any more. Still, the more testers the better. Already OSE WiP V0.45 has been downloaded 35 times during the last 20 hours ...

Should you have fun with it, I might have done something right

Cheers

L

Screet · Post by **Screet** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:24 pm

Lestradae wrote:
The crashing ships issue is really strange. The nodes have the following entry in shipdata.plist:

<key>port_dimensions</key>
<string>10000x10000x10000</string>
<key>port_radius</key>
<integer>10000</integer>
Actually, the ships should dock even earlier than they do as far as I understand. Could this be a problem with the caduceus' turrets, similar to the fuel station one? A bit clueless atm.

Hmmm. I was really close to those nodes. Doesn't look like that given distance, unless it's something like 100.00 internally.

I could well imagine that it's the subentity problem (note that, it's NOT turret only, it's a problem from ALL subentities). To be able to fly into a thargoid hive, I've got to disable even the engine subentities.

Lestradae wrote:
Where does the escort role suddenly come from? You didn't tweak your shipdata.plist, did you? The escort role that led to these pirates shouldn't be in there!

No, I did not change that one. I only removed the HUD and font.

Screet

Screet · Post by **Screet** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:05 am

I guess that this one has an AI bug...so it could well be outside OSE. I'll post it here though, as I don't know that for sure and the ship also had two other interesting "features":
1) >10K bounty (seemed to be a random amount)
2) Virtually indestructible. I had to use a Cascade Torpedo for 1500Cr as four lasers simply were not enough to hurt it - the recharge rate of the ship was high enough to stay at the energy level to which I shot it, as during my laser rotation the lasers never did completely cool down

The main bug is the AI one: The ship did simply stand still without reacting to anything. I've seen a similar ship (far less bounty, everything else, including the AI state the same) on the same trip before, however my computer crashed *GRRR*

Code: Select all

dumpState]: State for <StationEntity 0x108a0068>{"Juggernaut Destroyer" "Juggernaut Destroyer" ID: 469 position: (-11920, 9796.83, 267768) scanClass: CLASS_NEUTRAL status: STATUS_IN_FLIGHT}:
  [dumpState.entity]: Universal ID: 469
  [dumpState.entity]: Scan class: CLASS_NEUTRAL
  [dumpState.entity]: Status: STATUS_IN_FLIGHT
  [dumpState.entity]: Position: (-11920, 9796.83, 267768)
  [dumpState.entity]: Orientation: (0.918294 + 0.292593i - 0.00343379j + 0.26667k)
  [dumpState.entity]: Distance travelled: 20059.3
  [dumpState.entity]: Energy: 2470.27 of 3256
  [dumpState.entity]: Mass: 1.89773e+009
  [dumpState.entity]: Owner: <StationEntity 0x108a0068>{"Juggernaut Destroyer" "Juggernaut Destroyer" ID: 469 position: (-11920, 9796.83, 267768) scanClass: CLASS_NEUTRAL status: STATUS_IN_FLIGHT}
  [dumpState.entity]: Flags: isShip, isStation, isSunlit, collisionTestFilter
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Name: Juggernaut Destroyer
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Display Name: Juggernaut Destroyer:bounty:10602 cr
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Roles: <OORoleSet 0x35463980>{pirate piratedestroyerjuggernaut}
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Primary role: pirate
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Script: <OOJSScript 0x10564b40>{"oolite-default-ship-script" version 1.73}
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Subentity count: 34
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Behaviour: BEHAVIOUR_IDLE
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Destination: (-12079.3, 9735.7, 270239)
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Other destination: (0, 0, 0)
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Waypoint count: 0
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Desired speed: 0
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Fuel: 981
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Fuel accumulator: 0.665
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Missile count: 42
  [dumpState.shipEntity.ai]: AI:
    [dumpState.ai]: State machine name: dockingAI.plist
    [dumpState.ai]: Current state: AWAIT_COORDS
    [dumpState.ai]: Next think time: 564.139
    [dumpState.ai]: Next think interval: 0.125
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Frustration: 0
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Success factor: 0
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Shots fired: 0
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Time since shot: 100508
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Spawn time: 55.162 (508.513 seconds ago)
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Hull temperature: 60
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Heat insulation: 1
  [dumpState.shipEntity]: Flags: isFrangible, canFragment
  [dumpState.stationEntity]: Alert level: green
  [dumpState.stationEntity]: Max police: 8
  [dumpState.stationEntity]: Max defense ships: 3
  [dumpState.stationEntity]: Police launched: 0
  [dumpState.stationEntity]: Max scavengers: 3
  [dumpState.stationEntity]: Scavengers launched: 0
  [dumpState.stationEntity]: Docked shuttles: 0
  [dumpState.stationEntity]: Docked traders: 0
  [dumpState.stationEntity]: Equivalent tech level: 13
  [dumpState.stationEntity]: Equipment price factor: 0.95
  [dumpState.stationEntity]: Flags: none

Screet

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