Oolite Bulletins

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:19 am

These complications would seem to mirror our Real-Life reality as we know it in a more recognisable fashion.

You had better change it quick before Putin, Xi & Trump spot it and decide to emulate it!

I spent some time thinking about what you wrote...
In the Ooniverse economy I envision, the cost of living in space is tremendously greater than on the planets.
Captains, barely making a living from their own point of view, are extremely rich from the point of view of the planets inhabitants.
And some of these captains are commandeering whole fleets, a major security risk for planets.
So I guess most planets come with a common system: making them pay depending on the planet cost of living and the stay length.

Original minded planets might use a different system, mostly those implementing a free-trade no-tax zone. Monarchies with natural resources, I guess, UAE-style

Concerning Putin, Xi and Trump, the analysis opens a whole can of worms, as it needs to differentiate between levels of richness along the travellers; I tried to implement this with a one system fits everybody where they use different systems depending on the richness of people.

Day wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:34 pm

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:19 am

These complications would seem to mirror our Real-Life reality as we know it in a more recognisable fashion.

You had better change it quick before Putin, Xi & Trump spot it and decide to emulate it!

I spent some time thinking about what you wrote...
In the Ooniverse economy I envision, the cost of living in space is tremendously greater than on the planets.
Captains, barely making a living from their own point of view, are extremely rich from the point of view of the planets inhabitants.
And some of these captains are commandeering whole fleets, a major security risk for planets.
So I guess most planets come with a common system: making them pay depending on the planet cost of living and the stay length.

Original minded planets might use a different system, mostly those implementing a free-trade no-tax zone. Monarchies with natural resources, I guess, UAE-style

Concerning Putin, Xi and Trump, the analysis opens a whole can of worms, as it needs to differentiate between levels of richness along the travellers; I tried to implement this with a one system fits everybody where they use different systems depending on the richness of people.

Righty-ho!

I've now added your .oxp in the hope of getting some good screenshots!

1) The issue referred to earlier:

by Godev1 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:25 pm
Hi, this is a great addon! I only have the problem that my one-day visa is always expired after jumping to the related system. So what's the point of buying a one-day visa for Zaonce, let's say in Lave, when it's expired as soon as you arrive there. I always get fined for unallowed docking. Or is there anything I've missed?

arises due to the nuances of the glorious English language.

The F4 screen text "Buy a one-day visa for Zaonce at a cost of 2.2cr" implies that only the one-day visa is on offer, and that there is no ability to extend.

Mayhap, if you added: "Extend the Zaonce visa at a cost of 2.1cr/day" ... - and if you could show the total of bought days on the screen ... The slightly different cost of the extension helps add emphasis. I notice that the F8 page totals change as one buys and sells ...

Also, one can often extend the visa within the country itself. (One might have to go down to the planet surface on a shuttle ... But another visa to use the shuttle ... etc. ad nauseum ... Or join a lo-o-o-ong queue on the orbital station (or pay someone else to do it) ...

I notice that not all systems seem to require one: Zaonce & Ensoreus do, Tionisla & Isinor don't (at the moment, in my Ooniverse). Which is a nice touch.

Does the need for a visa for, say, Isinor change over time?

This .oxp is a very welcome addition to the collection, thank you!

2) I've only just dipped my toes into your modification, but the only thing I'd like to see added so far (other than the change of text above) would be some graphics for the Embassy district and the System History Section. Easier said than done, alas!
*If there was a GalCop logo, maybe that on a flag for the Embassy district (I've only seen ones so far are for the Galactic Police & Army). Or how about a pair of white gloves, a pith helmet and a glass of bubbly? Or a visa stamp in a passport ... Or some of Phantorgorth's species icons? Or some of the F6 system government icons (anarchy etc)? ...
*We could do with a decent GalCop logo anyway for the GalCop wiki page
*How about a picture of the planet (it need not revolve) for the System History F4 page?

3) To what extent does buying citizenship of a system link in with Home System.oxp's inner workings? There you buy Home System Privileges for 15,000cr a pop, which leads to what seems to be a sort of super-citizenship. Should it automatically grant Diplomancy.oxp style citizenship as well?

Edited to add explanations

@Cholmondely
Diplomancy OXP
Nice linguistic joke, sir! Me think it reflects mind pattern of key figures involved in process in real reality

You convinced me to continue (at least a little bit) my work on this project

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:14 am

1) The issue referred to earlier:

by Godev1 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:25 pm
Hi, this is a great addon! I only have the problem that my one-day visa is always expired after jumping to the related system. So what's the point of buying a one-day visa for Zaonce, let's say in Lave, when it's expired as soon as you arrive there. I always get fined for unallowed docking. Or is there anything I've missed?

arises due to the nuances of the glorious English language.

The F4 screen text "Buy a one-day visa for Zaonce at a cost of 2.2cr" implies that only the one-day visa is on offer, and that there is no ability to extend.

Mayhap, if you added: "Extend the Zaonce visa at a cost of 2.1cr/day" ... - and if you could show the total of bought days on the screen ... The slightly different cost of the extension helps add emphasis. I notice that the F8 page totals change as one buys and sells ...

Also, one can often extend the visa within the country itself. (One might have to go down to the planet surface on a shuttle ... But another visa to use the shuttle ... etc. ad nauseum ... Or join a lo-o-o-ong queue on the orbital station (or pay someone else to do it) ...

I'll see what I can do

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:14 am

I notice that not all systems seem to require one: Zaonce & Ensoreus do, Tionisla & Isinor don't (at the moment, in my Ooniverse). Which is a nice touch.

Does the need for a visa for, say, Isinor change over time?

Currently, visas, or citizenship, are needed to enter dictator, communist and corporate systems.
There is still no politics change possible, so this need doesn't change over time.
Visas may only be bought for non-enemy systems within 7ly of the player.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:14 am

This .oxp is a very welcome addition to the collection, thank you!

Thank you my good sir

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:14 am

2) I've only just dipped my toes into your modification, but the only thing I'd like to see added so far (other than the change of text above) would be some graphics for the Embassy district and the System History Section. Easier said than done, alas!
*If there was a GalCop logo, maybe that on a flag for the Embassy district (I've only seen ones so far are for the Galactic Police & Army). Or how about a pair of white gloves, a pith helmet and a glass of bubbly? Or a visa stamp in a passport ... Or some of Phantorgorth's species icons? Or some of the F6 system government icons (anarchy etc)? ...
*We could do with a decent GalCop logo anyway for the GalCop wiki page
*How about a picture of the planet (it need not revolve) for the System History F4 page?

Hmm, I'm not great at graphics, I'll think about it. If anybody wants to help on this part (or any other part, really), they're more than welcome.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:14 am

3) To what extent does buying citizenship of a system link in with Home System.oxp's inner workings? There you buy Home System Privileges for 15,000cr a pop, which leads to what seems to be a sort of super-citizenship. Should it automatically grant Diplomancy.oxp style citizenship as well?

There is currently no link at all. It could be studied.

I have added your suggestions to my backlog.

What was envisioned for the next version was:
"0.17 - more expensive visa to go planetSide, costs slashed planetSide (90% custom rebate ?...)
- citizenships may be acquired planetSide only"

What was envisioned for later versions concerning citizenship was:
- Citizenship could be linked to a corporation instead of to a system (Cyberpunk meme)
- Obligations may weight on the player depending on their citizenship (missions, battles...)
- The player may acquire a citizenship through missions, falsified papers, stolen papers from a captured pilot, marriage with a crew member, another pilot or an inhabitant
- The player may lose their citizenship through lack of system visit per year, treason, attack on the local army, simultaneous citizenship with an enemy system
- The player, citizen of a warring system, may be taxed, enroled into battles, or be given missions"

If you're interested in the other ideas in the backog, you can check the Diplomacy_roadmap.txt file in the oxp

stranger wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:24 pm

@Cholmondely
Diplomancy OXP
Nice linguistic joke, sir! Me think it reflects mind pattern of key figures involved in process in real reality

Err... Sorry, I'm not a native english speaker.
Would Diplomancy reference a kind of "discipline of diplomacy that is magical in nature"?

I totally would consider renaming the oxp for a good pun, but the magical part doesn't seem to me very Oolite-y.
What do you think?

Day wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:02 am

Would Diplomancy reference a kind of "discipline of diplomacy that is magical in nature"?

Indeed - a lovely word! It's in the Urban Dictionary (which is not a reliable source, of course).

Cody wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:11 am

Day wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:02 am

Would Diplomancy reference a kind of "discipline of diplomacy that is magical in nature"?

Indeed - a lovely word! It's in the Urban Dictionary (which is not a reliable source, of course).

Isn't there a term like "Gunboat diplomacy" ? Seems it becomes more and more common nowadays again.

I've implemented the suggestion concerning the 1-day visa phrasing and declared it to the oxp manager.
(But not tested it, oops, my Oolite is not functional on this computer).

May I ask you to check if it is now understandable and ok?

montana05 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:22 am

Cody wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:11 am

Day wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:02 am

Would Diplomancy reference a kind of "discipline of diplomacy that is magical in nature"?

Indeed - a lovely word! It's in the Urban Dictionary (which is not a reliable source, of course).

Isn't there a term like "Gunboat diplomacy" ? Seems it becomes more and more common nowadays again.

Yes, from what I remember, it was implemented by the UK over China. The idea was that any coastal country (like China / Taiwan (?)) could be subjugated by the menace of destruction through canons placed on boats.

It has been replaced by the airplane domination: as long as you have the domination of the skies, you can subjugate any country/city by the menace of bombarding them. Implemented by the US.

This one is currently challenged by the S-500, S-400, S-300 russian systems which are interdicting the aerial space to us planes.

Now, in Oolite space, we mostly have lasers, missiles and Q-bombs. I have not looked enough at the recent (say, last 4 years) works on oxp lasers and missiles to see if a consistent space combat doctrine could emerge with geopolitical (spatiopolitical ?) consequences. If yes, I would be very interested to incorporate that in Diplomacy background lore.

Day wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:02 am

stranger wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:24 pm

@Cholmondely
Diplomancy OXP
Nice linguistic joke, sir! Me think it reflects mind pattern of key figures involved in process in real reality

Err... Sorry, I'm not a native english speaker.

I'm not native English speaker too, but...

Day wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:02 am

Would Diplomancy reference a kind of "discipline of diplomacy that is magical in nature"?

Yep, sir! Something common with chiromancy and necromancy maybe. Seems you need very specific kind of magical thinking to be politician.

Alas, those dastardly diplomancers are busy interfering again:

My F4 screen now reads:

Extend your visa for Zaonce by 24 hours (& ditto for Ensoreus).

But I have not bought any visas yet! Now the implications is that I have to buy the first day somewhere else!

I can't seem to come up with a simple one line solution, I'm afraid. Just your old formula as the first line, followed by a second line offering the extension. Mayhap if I ratiocinate or ruminate at more length ...

But anyway: let me take the opportunity to wish you an enjoyable weekend, full of richesse and richness of experience for you and your family (in so far as that can be managed under the prevailing conditions!).

Cholmondeley.

Edited to add alliterative amplificatory adornments.

stranger wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:18 pm

Day wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:02 am

stranger wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:24 pm

@Cholmondely
Diplomancy OXP
Nice linguistic joke, sir! Me think it reflects mind pattern of key figures involved in process in real reality

Err... Sorry, I'm not a native english speaker.

I'm not native English speaker too, but...

Day wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:02 am

Would Diplomancy reference a kind of "discipline of diplomacy that is magical in nature"?

Yep, sir! Something common with chiromancy and necromancy maybe. Seems you need very specific kind of magical thinking to be politician.

All divinations...
And most forms of divination could be extremely useful to a diplomat I'd have thought!

Day wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:42 am

I've implemented the suggestion concerning the 1-day visa phrasing and declared it to the oxp manager.
(But not tested it, oops, my Oolite is not functional on this computer).

May I ask you to check if it is now understandable and ok?

As mentioned above, still problematic in the opposite direction!

What about this:

Buy one or more one-day visas for Digebiti at a cost of 613cr each

Also: Montana05 has been good enough to work up a logo for GalCop for us: https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.ph ... 59#p274259 which could be used for the F4 Embassy page if you have nothing you prefer. (Also now on our wiki: http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/File:L ... -Cop01.png)

Also: I've yet to find either the Wars or the Alliance maps on the F4 interface screen.

Edited to add the two alsos!

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:47 pm

Alas, those dastardly diplomancers are busy interfering again:

My F4 screen now reads:

Extend your visa for Zaonce by 24 hours (& ditto for Ensoreus).

But I have not bought any visas yet! Now the implications is that I have to buy the first day somewhere else!

I can't seem to come up with a simple one line solution, I'm afraid. Just your old formula as the first line, followed by a second line offering the extension. Mayhap if I ratiocinate or ruminate at more length ...

But anyway: let me take the opportunity to wish you an enjoyable weekend, full of richesse and richness of experience for you and your family (in so far as that can be managed under the prevailing conditions!).

Cholmondeley.

Edited to add alliterative amplificatory adornments.

Ahhhhh, yessss.
Soon, I'll make available a version where the message is different according to whether you already have a visa for this system or not.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:50 pm

Also: Montana05 has been good enough to work up a logo for GalCop for us: https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.ph ... 59#p274259 which could be used for the F4 Embassy page if you have nothing you prefer. (Also now on our wiki: http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/File:L ... -Cop01.png)

Also: I've yet to find either the Wars or the Alliance maps on the F4 interface screen.

Edited to add the two alsos!

Logo idea added to the backlog, thank both of you
Hmm, for those versed in Oolite lore, is it consistent that a galaxies-wide passport system used only by dictator, communist and corporate systems would be implemented by Galcop?

Concerning the Wars and alliances maps, you need the ADVANCED_NAVIGATIONAL_ARRAY equipment to display them. I updated the readme.txt to include this bit of info (in the next version).
The related line in the F4 interface is "Star wars" (yes, I dared).