Oolite Bulletins

Here we go. The first Oolite Extended V0.8 WiP is ready for being tested ...

I am intentionally posting this in the Testing and Bug reports and not the Expansion Pack forum!

Please note that this is not yet a published, finished oxp, but a WiP that I publish to find bugs before they are found after a future V1.0! Read all text and instructions here first before downloading and testplaying Oolite Extended! So please keep the WiP nature of OE in mind and that the reason for making the WiP accessible at all is not yet for normal gameplay, but to get this to a V1.0 that works perfectly well.

I really need as much feedback as possible on the following:

* How does it run on various systems, with different speeds (OS, Cores, RAM, GHz, Graphics Cards etc.)
* Are there bugs visible or noticable ingame, does something not work perhaps, is there strange behaviour that does not seem intentional somewhere?
* Is it playable, if playing as green Jameson, experienced player, or Elite veteran? Or are there any sore spots?
* Do any problems with inbuilt or oxp missions appear?
* Does the included equipment work as intended?
* Does the buying and selling, and visiting of player stations work as intended?
* If you replace the original oxps OE consists of with OE, does everything including any old savegame continue to function in the same way you are used to?
* Are there any error reports in the log?

What Oolite Extended does: Everything!

OE is a bundle of oxps for the "Aaaaaall-of-it"-crowd. Players who, asides from purely tongue-in-cheek oxps like KillIt i.e., consider the Ooniverse to be all that which oxp'ers have included, and perceive the core game as the canvas onto which the actual picture is painted. In other words: If your motto is "If it's potentially in there, I want to have it" then this could be of interest for you. Playing like that means that the Ooniverse is perceived as a living, growing entity, that might one day have moved far away from the original Elite.

So anything - really anything - someone has once done in earnest for Oolite, is here bundled in one giant meta-oxp. Including some features not yet available outside OE, as players buying stations and getting income from them, all sorts of new equipment, special systems beyond tech level 15, player carriers etc.

The oxps bundled have usually not been tempered with in any way. There are four exceptions that may be the case:

* Expansions on the original - the original is still untampered in there, but with extensions to its contents. This is never done with missions!
* Repricing and - accordingingly - "TL-ing" of ships according to a formula that calculates from the ship's stats in comparison to the Jameson's Cobra Mk III.
* NPC ships have lost nearly all disadvantages against players - the Oolite Extended game is noticably harder than the vanilla game.
* Some things have to be changed to simply allow this giant bundle of oxps to work together, missile speeds i.e. have to be three times higher or missiles will often be without any effect.

If you install for testplaying, please keep the following in mind:

* This is for people who want everything ever done for Oolite in their game. Please do not post or PM me requests "to take things out again". If you want that, do it yourself or use the conventional oxp system, as otherwise, this meta-oxp probably isn't fitting for your tastes.
* This is still a beta WiP, not even a release candidate. Have your savegames backupped at all times if you use OE for normal play. It should take over from any savegame, any mission, any ship you are flying, any equipment you have without a glitch - but, again, it is here for testing if it really does that - always!
* You need a fast, good computer to run Oolite Extended! About 2GB RAM and a 2GHz processor plus a decent graphics card are sorely recommended. Ahruman has done a great job in optimising Oolite, so with the above specs OE will run decently. But you need them at least for FPS 40+
* This WiP needs "1.74" trunk Oolite to run, and it better be a version of SVN 2717+! It won't run properly under 1.73.4 or lower versions.
* Please do not install any of the oxps below in addition to Oolite Extended. The reason being, OE already contains them as a bundle, and you would double-install them, which could crash your game or lead to massively unexpected behaviour!
* The DebugReport is part of this meta-oxp. It will leave a more detailed error & bug report in your log as usual. If you find reports of problems in your log, please post your log here in this thread! (And don't open new threads about them)

So, I let anyone still reading off the hook, here is the download already:

* Download temporarily removed until contentious issues have been resolved *

Have fun @testing

L

The 264 (!) oxps included (status quo 05-11-2009) are:

A
AAACrooks (Chaky-fixed), Aegidian-Special, All-Stars, Amen_Bricks_Megaships, AMS V1.1, Anarchies V2.2, AphidV2, Aquatics V2.11, arachnid, Assassins Guild V1.3, Asteroid Storm, att1, A-Wing

B
Bandersnatch, Behemoth Spacewar, BigShips V1.02, black_baron, Blackjacksbullion, Bounty Scanner, Boyracers, BuoyRepair1.02.5, buzzer, B-Wing

C
Capisastra (aka Seosu), Captured Thargons V1.0, Cargo & Wrecks V1.4, Cataclysm, Cobra3Njx, Cobra35, CobraClipperPC, Combat Computers, CombinedSounds, Commies, CompactHUD, Condor, custsounds

D
DebugReport, DeepspaceHud, DeepSpacePirates, Deposed V1.3.4, Dictators, Diso, dodo_stations, Dr_HUD, Dr_HUD_CMkIII, Dragon V1.72, Dredgers V2.2.5, Drones V1.1, Dreams01Beta, Dredger V1.0, DWCobra3

E
e5amigasoundpack, Eagle2, Energy Equipment V1.04, ettBeaconLauncher, Executive Spaceways V2.2

F
Famous Planets V2.0, Far Star, Ferdelance_NG, Ferdepai, FighterHud, Firewasp, Flying Dutchman, FP Liners 1.00, Freaky Thargoids V3.1, FTZv0.13, FuelCollectorV0.06, Fuel_Station V1.23, Fuel Tank, fsr

G
Galactic Navy, galcops, Galcop_trade_outpost, Generation Ships V1.1, G-HUD_Mk2, globestations2, Grass_Snake, Gritty Coriolis, Greekshipset1, Griff_Adder_normalmapped, Griff_Anaconda_normalmapped, Griff_Cobra_Mk1_normalmapped, Griff_Cobra_Mk3_normalmapped_less_scuffed_texture, Griff_Cobra_Mk3_normalmapped_original_scuffed_texture, Griff_Coriolis_normalmapped, Griff_Fer-de-lance_normalmapped, Griff_Fer-de-lance_normalmapped_scuffed_texture_version, Griff_Krait_normalmapped, griff_python_normalmapped, Griff_Sidewinder_normalmapped, Griff_Thargoids_normalmapped, Griff_Thargoids_organic_normalmapped, Griff_Vipers_normalmapped, Griff_Worm_normalmapped, Griff_Normalmapped_ships, griff_planetexpress, griff_shady_station, griff_ships_remixed, Griffin2, gwxstations

H
halsis, Hammer, Hawksound, Herald, hOopyCasino 1.1, Hotrods, hud_ng, hyperradio V1.16

I
Icarus, Illicit_Unlock_FIX1.56, Impcourier (new ship model), Impcourier2 (new), Interceptor, Interstellar help, Ionics-1.2.3, Isisinterstellar, Ixianfreighter, Ixianships V1.1

J
Jabberwocky

K
Kestrel&Falcon, kirin, kirin_sport, kleptohud

L
Lambda, Lane_Legal, Lave V1.70, Lave Academy, liberator, Llama, Longshot, Long Way Around V1.1, Lovecats V1.2

M
Manta, MaegilsMissiles, Marett_Vol1, Marett_Vol2, MedusaHud, megawalnutdash, Merlin, MildAudio, MilHud V3, Military Fiasco, milmissile, Misjump Analyser V1.0, Missile Analyser V1.1.1, Missiles and Bombs V2.2, Missile Rack V1.02, Missionaries, Monument, Morrigan, MPakRedux, Murgh's replacement sounds, Murgh_XShips

N
NavyStarships, Neocaduceus, Neolite, neoliteCompanion, neolite-Megaships, Newships, nukes V0.9, nuvipers

O
Oldships, Oo-Haul, Ore_processor V1.53d, OsirisV1, Outrider

P
P.A. Groove Stations, Pallas, Pelamis, Phoenix, Pirate_coves1.2.1, piratetraps, Planetfall V1.23, PlanetFall - Black Monks, PlanetFall - hOopy Casino, PlanetFall - Oo-Haul, Planetfall - Taxi, playerstations, Pods V1.1, Pods-UPS 1.1, Probe_1.1, PTI, PythonClassCruiserV2.6

R
Racers, Random Hits V1.3.6, Realistic Shipyards V4.0, Renegade Pirates V3.0, Renegade_Viper, Repair Bots V1.1, Ring Racer, ringpod, RoC, Rock_Hermit_Locator1.3.1

S
SalezaV2, Santa, Second Wave, Sell equipment, Shady_blackmonks, Shield-Tail, Shreddies, snark, Snoopers, Spearhead_1, spyhunter1.1, Status_Quo_Q-bomb, Ste3c, s-ships, Stingray, Stingray_Mk_II, Sung's Textures, sunskimmers, Supercobra, Superhub, Swift, System Redux

T
Taranis Corporation HQ, Tardis, Target Autolock, Target Reticle, Taxi_Galactica, Terrapin, Tesoura, Thargoid Carrier, Thargoid Wars V4.3, Thargorn Threat V1.3, Tianve, TIE, Tiger, Tionisla Graveyard, Torus Station, Total patrol, Traffic Control, Trans-Hab Station, Transports, TrekHud, Tribant, Trident Down V1.4, tty, Tugships, typhoon

U
uber, U.P.S. Courier, Urutu_IV, UrutuMkIII

V
Vector V1.3, Velocity

W
wakapiko0109, wakatoro0109, Weeviloid, Welcome Mat V1.06, Wiggy's replacement sounds, WolfMk2, Wolfwoods_Variants (neolite version)

X
Xaotiks replavement sounds, xarik, X-Ships, X-Wing

Y
Your Ad Here!, YOUR_AD_HERE_set_A, YOUR_AD_HERE_set_B, YOUR_AD_HERE_set_C, YOUR_AD_HERE_set_D, YOUR_AD_HERE_set_E, YOUR_AD_HERE_set_F, YOUR_AD_HERE_Z, Y-Wing

Lestradae wrote:

What Oolite Extended does: Everything!

Adding mission oxp's which will continue to run after playing them through I have no problem with, but you also did include some which won't stay active.

I think that is not the best idea as these mission oxp's can slow things down when played through while they won't do anything to enhance the game afterwards.

How it is with all the custom sounds packages I do not know, I always thought they would exclude each other? I for myself did give a few a try and instantly went back to standard oolite for them If they can be configured to switch between the packages (and off) I don't care for the additional download size, though.

However, the download really became immense and now does show the limits of your file storage provider: It's very slow (around 300KiB/second) and the first time it stalled after 250+ megs and I have to redownload again. I think you will need a more reliable - and if possible - faster provider there.

Screet

Hey Screet,

just short!

* The box.net service is the best and most comfortable one I know as of yet in a pricerange below 15€ for the sort of traffic this is generating. Also I do know the download numbers In the night it has hiccups sometimes. Perhaps better to download at day.

* If you don't want the sounds, delete customsounds.plist in Config. You can even have a sound oxp singled out by installing it alongside and renaming it with a "Z -" upfront for obvious reasons. So you can easily configure that if you want to. Sound oxps can be merged, and I did it. Now not every laserhit or scrape or whatever sounds the same. Try it out. I think it sounds more like being in an actual world, but I guess it's a matter of taste as are many things ...

Btw, same with Huds. Rename the hud.plist of any hud you like to "hud.plist", and rename its parts in the "Images" folder by removing reference to their oxp ("Customs-Compass" -> "Compass") Voila, new hud. Or simply delete the hud.plist in Config to get the original Oolite hud.

* OE V0.8 is considerably faster on my system than OSE V0.71 was. Perhaps Ahruman has continued his code cleanification bonanza, perhaps my nagging suspicion that oxp bundles are faster for some reason than a heap of oxps is correct? I believe you will find the speed quite to your liking, keep me updated if that assumption will turn out correct or not. The few missions that can be finished are not going to slow things down considerably, I think.

Hope you still have fun with it, sorry for the download glitch

L

Or perhaps the ongoing conversion from legacy scripts to js? It does make a huge difference in speed, you know.

Kaks wrote:

Or perhaps the ongoing conversion from legacy scripts to js? It does make a huge difference in speed, you know.

Yup, entirely possible! Pmw57 translated a lot of planetinfo.plist scripts to js - perhaps that helped, too!

The JS translation is the only thing that helped. The bundles-are-faster-than-standalone assumption is completely wrong, since the OXP data is cached anyway.

another_commander wrote:

The JS translation is the only thing that helped. The bundles-are-faster-than-standalone assumption is completely wrong, since the OXP data is cached anyway.

I do stand corrected, then

L, I'd rather you didn't include Random Hits in the download until its in its finished version. It still has bugs in it (although not too many - but for example, the victim's escorts have a tendancy in 1.3.6 to lock on to and attack their mother - fixed by Eric and the bar text screen currently contains debug variables.) and some features are not finished. Its is also written for the current test release of Oolite. Everytime a new test version of Oolite comes out (up to the MSR) Random Hits requires revision due to command name changes. If a buggy version is in OSE any bug fixed versions I release in the furture either will not work, or people will report fixed bugs as Random Hits bugs. Whilst I think a meta OXP is a good idea, I don't agree with including missions (IMHO there are better released as stand alones), as these types of OXP in particular tend to get revised a lot. I also think you should have asked before including Random Hits, Assassins, Renegade Pirates and Asteroid Storm. Renegade Pirates in particular is horrably buggy as I wrote it so long ago it does not play nicely at all with neo-oolite or Griff's ships set replacement.

I'm really snowed under with RL stuff ATM, so it will be a while before I can do any serious OXPing, but I would like to leave the option open and I don't really want to have to spend time responding to bug reports that relate to bugs that have been squoshed but have been preserved in OSE. I really think that for this reason alone, it is a very bad idea for the community in general to include really complex OXPs in a meta OXP.

I have no problem at all with anyone who wants to using any stuff they like from my OXPs in their own, but its a bit much to effectively prevent the orginal author from correcting errors or improving their own work, particlulary when you did not ask my permersion (or Griff, Ramon and Charlie who also did a lot of work for these OXPs).

*adding to jump forum glitch*

Good points LittleBear. For someone like me, who's machine will never be able to handle the whole Extended package, it will be downright confusing if these complex OXPs start getting out of step.

Makara wrote:

*adding to jump forum glitch*

Good points LittleBear. For someone like me, who's machine will never be able to handle the whole Extended package, it will be downright confusing if these complex OXPs start getting out of step.

I don't see a real problem. This way you can be very sure you always have outdated stuff when downloading OSE. It is impossible to keep the individual parts within OSE updated and bug free. So it now becomes easier to convince people in not downloading this big bug, but to download the proper originals that are kept updated by their authors.

Eric Walch wrote:

I don't see a real problem. This way you can be very sure you always have outdated stuff when downloading OSE. It is impossible to keep the individual parts within OSE updated and bug free. So it now becomes easier to convince people in not downloading this big bug, but to download the proper originals that are kept updated by their authors.

If you guys think you can keep going like this, you're dead wrong.

I really don't have to put up with this shit.

EOC.

LittleBear, I'm hope you're happy with what you have let yourself get instrumentalised for. See the immediate results. Forget a further PM from me: It's not coming. I wanted to send you something calm answering to your concerns, but these are no concerns here. It's bull.

This here is simply a stupid little bullying game inscenated by people who for some reason don't have something better to do, and it is ending here.

I have invested a real lot of work into RS/OSE/OE, more than some of the people I could mention that bully me here have invested in theirs, I could say. Literally thousands of people got interested in the stuff I have put together. I created one of the most successful threads here and really tried to be cooperative and talk things out, take concerns and criticism seriously and so on. Obviously, this doesn't work.

I think this ignorant, arrogant, "I am such an elite (not the game) programmer/coder", downputting stance of some people here is simply a result from feeling overshadowed. Not sure why actually, as what I'm doing is showcasing everyone's work here in an obviously good light, but well. If you need it.

I'm out of here for a few weeks. I'll be back, I guess. But I've had it, I won't put up with this sorry lack of social competence anymore.

If someone here still hasn't got it, read up on the Creative Commons license and what it says! Condition: Share-alike!

If you are such superior coders that your stuff should by all rights be copyrighted like a commercial game and will also have fewer bugs than those, what about going to the gaming industry? Should really be peanuts for giants such as you.

I don't really know what has started the new round of flames nor do I want to know. Had I not invested more than a thousand workhours into this meta-oxp I would simply stop the project.

Though, I'm going to finish it. But I won't be cooperative about it. Anyone who tries to talk down to me in the future is going to be treated the same royal-assed, ignorant way I have been treated time and again on this forum: With silence at best.

When it's done, it's done, and will probably be more up-to-date than singular oxps on actual players harddrives. Or does anyone think players walk the 265+ oxps list daily and look for the holy update? If these are not even marked, and not even I can find them when looking for them sometimes (the updates)?

No worry, rant over, perhaps read you in a few weeks.

L

Eric Walch wrote:

I don't see a real problem. This way you can be very sure you always have outdated stuff when downloading OSE. It is impossible to keep the individual parts within OSE updated and bug free. So it now becomes easier to convince people in not downloading this big bug, but to download the proper originals that are kept updated by their authors.

Eric, really, is it necessary to write that way? Especially since there have been bugs found in your oxp's which could crash oolite and which were fixed by the OSE people. At least in that case, people would have had far better results with OSE than with the different oxp's on their own.

Furthermore, it's really a problem to stay up to date on oxp's for a single person as the way it's currently handled is producing problems for such a task. Hopefully, that will change when the oxp list is updated to a better version and also updated instantly when an oxp is being updated. Maybe post-MNSR Oolite really should have some tool to verify oxp versions.

Screet

No wish to fall out with you L. But you have used stuff that is being written by another member without asking permission and that is bad form. If you are going to distrubte work by other forum members without even telling them you are going to do it then it is a bit much for you to describe others as high handed. It is also bad for the game.

I hope would accept that any criticism of you, at least by me, is based on the effect of using w.i.p. OXPs in OSE would have rather than anything personal towards you.

For example yesterday Commander McLane posted a bug with the shaders on Griff's Hopper. Today Griff has posted saying he's got a fix for it. If Random Hits is circulating in two versions how am I suppost to support it? I can't fix bugs (my bugs by the way from my mistakes in coding not your mistakes) because there will be users who have OSE installed but not Random Hits itself.

If you are undertaking to maintain it and fix all the bugs yourself then fine include it in OSE. But that it is an impossible task and on any view, I really think that as the orginal author I am entitled to finish my own OXP.

There are bugs with the AI that need fixing in 1.3.6 and the events code is only half done and the special mission is only half done.

Another problem I will have if Random Hits is released in two versions is that the Random Hits version in OSE will still be setting certain blocking variables that stop certain events happening (I need these turned on ATM cos the code to support certain events is half done and if I let them run Oolite would crash).

However if I then relealse a new version with these features turned on when I've finished writing the code for it, the out of date version in OSE will turn off all my new features!!! That would be kinda annoying for me, as I hope you'd be the first to appearate. When you've worked on an OXP you want people to be able to play it.

Similarly, it makes no sense to include Assassins in a meta OXP. The script to assassins really chews up reasorches and its a play once OXP. There's just no point having it in unless you are in G7 and haven't finished it.

If you are going to distrute unfinshied code by other authors, then the orginal author has no choice but to either not support the OXP anymore or slap a warning on the Wikki page saying that the OXP won't work if you have OSE installed. I don't want to do that because I do not want to make any OXP I release incompatable with an OXP you (or any other member of the community has released). Please extend me the same courstory by not making OSE incompatable with any further versions of Random Hits.

I have always been supportive of your OXPs so I am entitled I think to be somewhat narked for you to realease an OXP that will prevent one of mine from working properly. And then go off in a huff when its pointed out!

I would full accept that you didn't mean to do this, but I hope you can see that because of the way Random Hits is coded, this is what you would do by including the current version in OSE. You would also have known this if you had the manners to have sent me a PM saying that you wanted to include Random Hits in OSE. I would then have told you "Please do, but I'd like to finish it first!"

If you do not want to co-operate with any other member of the forum, I fail to see how you can view this as good for the project. If everybody make there oxps incompatable with everyone elses the game (and indeed these forums) woudn't be much fun.

I would also suggest that you follow your own advice and read the Creative Commons Licence. ([/url]http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/[url]). You are not permitted to use another ... ask first.[/url]

I understand your emotional reaction Lestradae as you put a lot of work and enthusiasm into the project and I very much look forward to the end product but I think that Littlebear has some valid point in his commentary. BTW his comments where not meant as a personal attack.

So Gentlemen. Please return to being the friendliest board on this side of Riedquate please! We can discuss this out in a normal way

pagroove, yours is the voice of reason. Agreed.

I am going to try to resolve this with LittleBear via PM.

One thing still stands: I am not going to let anyone bully me around, fin.

And before criticising the idea here, please at least read what stands in the very first posting of this thread, this would have cleared up the question about the upgrade problematics immediately. There is a difference between a very critical debate and destructive b...!

L