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Things I Wish I Knew BEFORE Starting this *@*#~&ing .oxp

https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?t=2886

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Re: Things I Wish I Knew BEFORE Starting this *@*#~&ing .oxp

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 6:53 am
by another_commander
How's this for Diso's orange soup?

Image

Here is the planetinfo entry that creates it. I just adjusted cloud_alpha to a reasonable value and added orange cloud_color and raised cloud percent to 99:

Code: Select all

// Cholly's Diso Orange Soup
	"0 147" = {
	    description = "This planet is mildly noted for its ancient Ouza tulip plantations but is ravaged by frequent earthquakes. The Diso Digital Corp has built a planet wide sensor-network, with the latest OO32000 super-risk processors. This is capable of predicting the earthquakes a full day before they happen. Houses on Diso are built on giant shock absorbers and are often mobile. Diso is also famous for its 10,000 km long Veers fault.";
            "air_color" = "0.995 0.2 0.0 0.69";       //Experimenting with Diso for Larais!
            "air_density" = "1.0";			    // much higher than normal
            "cloud_alpha" = "0.95";                        // much higher than normal
	    "cloud_color" = "0.995 0.2 0.0";
            "atmosphere_rotational_velocity" = "0.3";  // too fast
            "percent_cloud" = "99";                    // much higher than normal 
	};
If you want to make it even more gloomy consider changing percent_land to something like 1 or 2. This way it looks like a sea of orange haze when viewed from a distance.

Re: Things I Wish I Knew BEFORE Starting this *@*#~&ing .oxp

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 10:08 am
by Cholmondely
another_commander wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 6:53 am

Code: Select all

// Cholly's Diso Orange Soup
	"0 147" = {
	    description = "This planet is mildly noted for its ancient Ouza tulip plantations but is ravaged by frequent earthquakes. The Diso Digital Corp has built a planet wide sensor-network, with the latest OO32000 super-risk processors. This is capable of predicting the earthquakes a full day before they happen. Houses on Diso are built on giant shock absorbers and are often mobile. Diso is also famous for its 10,000 km long Veers fault.";
            "air_color" = "0.995 0.2 0.0 0.69";       //Experimenting with Diso for Larais!
            "air_density" = "1.0";			    // much higher than normal
            "cloud_alpha" = "0.95";                        // much higher than normal
	    "cloud_color" = "0.995 0.2 0.0";
            "atmosphere_rotational_velocity" = "0.3";  // too fast
            "percent_cloud" = "99";                    // much higher than normal 
	};
Thanks! I'll play around with it!



Wiki Matters

"cloud_color" is missing from our wiki.

I just found it here:
JensAyton wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:38 pm
That’s not a scripting request, but… done. New keys added:
  • percent_cloud
  • cloud_alpha – scale factor for cloud_color and polar_cloud_color alpha values, [0, 1].
  • clear_sky_color – a colour specifier (not HSV string) for the clear part of the sky at the equator. The alpha must be specified or will default to 1, as with all colour specifiers. Randomly-generated atmospheres use an alpha of 0.05 (or 13 on the 0-255 scale).
  • cloud_color – a colour specifier for the cloudy part of the sky at the equator. Alpha for random atmospheres is 0.50. The alpha value is multiplied by cloud_alpha.
  • polar_clear_sky_color – a colour specifier for the clear part of the sky at the poles. Alpha for random atmospheres is 0.34. If this is not specified, but cloud_color is, it will use clear_sky_color with its alpha scaled by 0.34/0.05.
  • polar_cloud_color – a colour specifier for the cloudy part of the sky at the poles. Random atmosphere alpha is 0.75. If not specified, cloud_color is used, with alpha scaled by 0.75/0.50. The alpha value is multiplied by cloud_alpha.
  • atmosphere_rotational_velocity – like rotational_velocity, but for atmospheres.
In the mean time, remember that you can get rid of the atmosphere entirely by using addMoon: instead.

Limitation: atmospheres configured this way will not be displayed when setting up a scene using setBackgroundFromDescriptionsKey:. Since this is completely undocumented, and I have no idea whether it actually works, that shouldn’t affect anyone. :-)
2007!

I'm not sure that I understand any of it! But I can copy the missing bits into our wiki.

1) Cim's SOTL Altmap includes a lot of stuff. I was told that some of it does not exist in the vanilla game code, but some of it presumably does and could be undocumented.

Code: Select all

"0 0" = {
	"layer" = "1";
	"coordinates" = "128 128";
	"random_seed" = "74 83 255 70 191 124";
	"name" = "AT 7735";
	"planet_name" = "AT 7735 III";
	"sun_radius" = "603837";
	"corona_flare" = "0.06";
	"corona_shimmer" = "0.01";
	"corona_hues" = "0.03";
	"sun_color" = "0.907 0.800 0.293";
	"sun_distance" = "39241227";
	"sun_name" = "AT 7735";
	"sun_vector" = "0.940 0.000 -0.341";
	"planet_distance" = "3816965";
	"radius" = "5588";
	"percent_land" = "33.43";
	"percent_ice" = "0.00";
	"percent_cloud" = "100.00";
	"has_atmosphere" = "1";
	"cloud_alpha" = "1.15";
	"rotational_velocity" = "0.0005738";
	"atmosphere_rotational_velocity" = "0.0004110";
	"land_color" = "0.564 0.224 0.855";
	"polar_land_color" = "0.726 0.419 0.491";
	"sea_color" = "0.368 0.326 0.567";
	"polar_sea_color" = "0.568 0.526 0.767";
	"cloud_color" = "0.788 0.474 0.704";
	"polar_cloud_color" = "0.403 0.662 0.412";
	"sky_n_stars" = "13227";
	"sky_n_blurs" = "74";
	"population" = "0";
	"inhabitant" = "";
	"populator" = "uninhabitedSystemWillPopulate";
	"repopulator" = "uninhabitedSystemWillRepopulate";
	"population_description" = "No official population
";
	"inhabitants" = "";
	"techlevel" = "0";
	"economy" = "0";
	"economy_description" = "Survival";
	"productivity" = "1";
	"sotl_economy_status" = "-2";
	"sotl_economy_importsfrom" = "";
	"sotl_economy_exportsto" = "";
	"sotl_economy_onroutes" = "255,194,156,122,92,186,76,22,163,161,18,242,236,0,181,68,170,8"; ............ reams and reams and reams of this stuff omitted
	"government" = "0";
	"sotl_system_stability" = "0";
	"government_description" = "None";
	"sotl_government_category" = "None";
	"station" = "sotl-outpost-station";
	"station_vector" = "-0.629 -0.472 0.618";
	"description" = "At an average of 311.3722294223335K, the surface is too hot for productive habitation. ... AT 7735 is a Class K star. ... Normalised surface radiation: 0.000 Fd. ... Surface gravity: 7.30m/s². ... Seismic activity: low.";
	"sotl_description_elements" = "BFSEP-TEMH14,BFUEP-RAD,BFUS-BORING1,BFUEP-GRAV,BFUEP-SEIS";
	"sotl_description_elements_used" = "BFSEP-TEMH14,BFUS-BORING1,BFUEP-RAD,BFUEP-GRAV,BFUEP-SEIS";
	"sotl_planet_surface_radiation" = "0.000";
	"sotl_planet_surface_temperature" = "38";
	"sotl_mineral_wealth" = "0.19";
	"sotl_habitability_best" = "46.5";
	"sotl_economy_reason" = "Empty";
	"founded" = "undefined";
	"planet_surface_gravity" = "0.74";
	"planet_seismic_instability" = "0.062";
	"undist" = "1";
	"attacked" = "0";
	"contested" = "0";
	"independent_hub" = "0";
	"accession" = "undefined";
	"military_base" = "0";
	"planet_wind_speeds" = "0.411";
	"star_instability" = "0.04";
	"hab_b" = "8.3";
	"hab_fe" = "25.2";
	"hab_fr" = "33.0";
	"hab_h" = "22.4";
	"hab_i" = "23.2";
	"hab_li" = "46.5";
	"hab_lo" = "20.2";
	"hab_r" = "43.1";
	"hab_worst" = "8.3";
};
How would I work out what is his and what is from the vanilla game code?

2) Would there be other sources for undocumented Vanilla game code goodies which I could find to incorporate in our wiki? How/where should I look for them?

Re: Things I Wish I Knew BEFORE Starting this *@*#~&ing .oxp

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 10:52 am
by Cholmondely
[EliteWiki] Planetinfo.plist wiki page

Is this still true? (top of the page)

Each of the properties mentioned below can be set (but, notably, not the location of the main planet, which is hard coded into the system seed value)

I thought we could now move the main planet along the z-axis from the witchpoint beacon? And that everything was then defined from those two points - in which case, can we not change the location of the main planet relative to everything else? So the statement is not quite true?



And I found these under Properties of the Planet:

1) "Most of these properties are ignored if a planet texture is set."

But there is no indication as to which these are. Is it the obvious (stuff to do with the vanilla code-generated land replaced by the new texture), or is there more to it?




2) "Note that the available planet texture generator properties changed in places between Oolite 1.77 and Oolite 1.80"

Looking at the history of the page, were these things like changing "land_hsb_color" to "land_color" ?



And Ahruman's 2007 additions seem never to have been included - so I'll get onto that now.

Re: Things I Wish I Knew BEFORE Starting this *@*#~&ing .oxp

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 2:46 pm
by Wildeblood
Cholmondely wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 10:52 am
[EliteWiki] Planetinfo.plist wiki page

Is this still true? (top of the page)

Each of the properties mentioned below can be set (but, notably, not the location of the main planet, which is hard coded into the system seed value)

I thought we could now move the main planet along the z-axis from the witchpoint beacon? And that everything was then defined from those two points - in which case, can we not change the location of the main planet relative to everything else? So the statement is not quite true?
Yes, you are correct, the current planetinfo.plist includes:

"planet_distance",
"planet_distance_multiplier",

BTW, World Builder includes "cloud_color" in its ATMOSPHERE menu.
Cholmondely wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 10:52 am
And Ahruman's 2007 additions seem never to have been included - so I'll get onto that now.
Are you going to check if they work, first?

Re: Things I Wish I Knew BEFORE Starting this *@*#~&ing .oxp

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 3:12 pm
by Cholmondely
Wildeblood wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 2:46 pm
Cholmondely wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 10:52 am
And Ahruman's 2007 additions seem never to have been included - so I'll get onto that now.
Are you going to check if they work, first?
I don’t know how to - I don’t understand the descriptions.

Edited to add:

Confusions underlined
....
cloud_alpha – scale factor for cloud_color and polar_cloud_color alpha values, [0, 1].
clear_sky_color – a colour specifier (not HSV string) for the clear part of the sky at the equator. The alpha must be specified or will default to 1, as with all colour specifiers. Randomly-generated atmospheres use an alpha of 0.05 (or 13 on the 0-255 scale).
cloud_color – a colour specifier for the cloudy part of the sky at the equator. Alpha for random atmospheres is 0.50. The alpha value is multiplied by cloud_alpha.
polar_clear_sky_color – a colour specifier for the clear part of the sky at the poles. Alpha for random atmospheres is 0.34. If this is not specified, but cloud_color is, it will use clear_sky_color with its alpha scaled by 0.34/0.05.
polar_cloud_color – a colour specifier for the cloudy part of the sky at the poles. Random atmosphere alpha is 0.75. If not specified, cloud_color is used, with alpha scaled by 0.75/0.50. The alpha value is multiplied by cloud_alpha.
....
Limitation: atmospheres configured this way will not be displayed when setting up a scene using setBackgroundFromDescriptionsKey:. Since this is completely undocumented, and I have no idea whether it actually works, that shouldn’t affect anyone.
Is there also an atmosphere_color? And an atmosphere alpha? The wiki-page's "Air Color Mix Ratio" (The amount of air color that be mixed in the overall atmosphere color. A number from 0.0 to 1.0 (default 0.5).) tells me that there is yet another missing ingredient - the atmosphere color.

I did not find "setBackgroundFromDescriptionsKey" in the wiki

Bluntly, I find all this clear as mud, and how I am supposed to test for any of it is quite beyond me.

Re: Things I Wish I Knew BEFORE Starting this *@*#~&ing .oxp

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 10:33 pm
by phkb
Cholmondely wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 3:12 pm
I did not find "setBackgroundFromDescriptionsKey" in the wiki
Slightly incorrect name. The correct name is setScreenBackgroundForKey, which is on the JavaScript Global page.

Any reference to "Alpha" is related to how transparent/opaque the colour is. A standard RGBA (red, green, blue, alpha) definition is made up of four values, and in Oolite these numbers are generally in the range of 0-1. So, a fully opaque version of red would be (1, 0, 0, 1). A half-transparent version of red would be (1, 0, 0, 0.5). An almost invisible version of red would be (1, 0, 0, 0.1).

Often, though, you will see colour specifiers that only have 3 values. eg (1, 0, 0). In those instances, an alpha value of 1 is assumed, unless it is being overridden by some other setting.

A HSV string refers to a "Hue/Saturation/Value" string, which is another way of defining a color. It can also be called HSB, with "Value" being replaced by "Brightness". They look like this: "{ hue = 300; saturation = 0.3; }". If the "value"/"brightness" component is missing, it is assumed to be 1.0. This can also have an alpha value (making them HSVA/HSBA), and if it's missing it's assumed to be 1.0.

Scale factors are just multipliers. The "cloud_alpha" will be used on the alpha value of "cloud_color" and "polar_cloud_color". For example, if the "cloud_color" is set to (0.7, 0.7, 0.7, 0.2) (a light grey that is mostly transparent), and the "cloud_alpha" is set to 0.5, the result for "cloud_color" would be (0.7, 0.7, 0.7, 0.1) (a light grey that is even more transparent).

Going through the code, I found the following were missing from the wiki page:
"atmosphere_color", "polar_atmosphere_color", "cloud_fraction", "cloud_color", "polar_cloud_color", "land_fraction", "noise_map_seed", "polar_fraction", "perlin_3d"
I'll examine the code and try to come up with reasonably understandable descriptions for each (which may be tricky, as some of this code is hard to understand).

Confusion abounds, though, as the wiki says the "Polar Land Color" is defined with "land_color", and the "Polar Sea Color" is defined with "sea_color", when actually, there are two values for each: "land_color" (which defines the normal land color) along with "polar_land_color" (which defines the land color at the poles), and "sea_color" (which defines the normal sea color) along with "polar_sea_color" (which defines the sea color at the poles).

I can't find any reference in the core code for "clear_sky_color" or "polar_clear_sky_color". It looks like they were added a long time ago (2007), but were replaced with "atmosphere_color" and "polar_atmosphere_color" at some point later, the exact date of the change being unclear.

Re: Things I Wish I Knew BEFORE Starting this *@*#~&ing .oxp

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 11:39 pm
by Cholmondely
another_commander wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 5:23 am
Cholmondely wrote: ↑Tue Jul 01, 2025 11:34 pm

Code: Select all

 
            "cloud_alpha" = "8.5";                        // much higher than normal
cloud_alpha is expected to be between 0.0 and 1.0. It is the opacity of the cloud layer. 0.0 is fully transparent, 1.0 is fully opaque. 8.5 is clamped to 1.0 in the best case scenario or undefined behavior in the worst.
Just browsing though cim's AltMap's planetinfo.plist (16th July 2015):

"cloud_alpha" = "1.15";
"cloud_alpha" = "1.70";
"cloud_alpha" = "1.70";
"cloud_alpha" = "2.22";
"cloud_alpha" = "2.09";
"cloud_alpha" = "1.63";
"cloud_alpha" = "2.36";
"cloud_alpha" = "1.13";
"cloud_alpha" = "1.10";
"cloud_alpha" = "1.64";
"cloud_alpha" = "1.29";
"cloud_alpha" = "2.17";
"cloud_alpha" = "2.38";
"cloud_alpha" = "2.13";
"cloud_alpha" = "1.63";
"cloud_alpha" = "1.39";
"cloud_alpha" = "1.66";

Interspersed with the above, there are maybe 6 values between 0-1!

Re: Things I Wish I Knew BEFORE Starting this *@*#~&ing .oxp

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2025 12:01 am
by phkb
Cholmondely wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 11:39 pm
Interspersed with the above, there are maybe 6 values between 0-1!
That's weird, because in my reading of the core code, the cloud_alpha value is clamped between 0 and 1. So all those values above 1 would end up being 1.

Re: Things I Wish I Knew BEFORE Starting this *@*#~&ing .oxp

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2025 12:11 am
by phkb
Cholmondely wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 10:08 am
How would I work out what is his and what is from the vanilla game code?
Anything with a prefix of "sotl" is, naturally enough, specific to SOTL.
Of the other entries, these ones are not used by core code and are therefore specific to SOTL:
"founded", "planet_surface_gravity", "planet_seismic_instability", "undist", "attacked", "contested", "independent_hub", "accession", "military_base", "planet_wind_speeds", "star_instability", and "hab_*" (ie all the items with a prefix of "hab_")

As for how I worked this out, I just searched the source code for those specific words. For instance, go to https://github.com/OoliteProject/oolite, then press the "/" key to bring up the repository search, then type in (including the quotes) "founded". You should get no hits in the "Code" section. There are hits in the "Commits" section, but that's because it's searching text and "found" is similar" to "founded", so it includes those. Hits in the "Code" section are the important ones.

However, I don't do my searches on GitHub. I have a local copy of the source code, and I either use the search function inside VSCode, or I use "Agent Ransack" (a Windows-based search tool) to quickly search local drives.

Re: Things I Wish I Knew BEFORE Starting this *@*#~&ing .oxp

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2025 12:27 am
by Cholmondely
phkb wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 10:33 pm
I'll examine the code and try to come up with reasonably understandable descriptions for each (which may be tricky, as some of this code is hard to understand).
Thanks for this!

I was pondering splitting up the (to me) confusing list of 2 dozen properties into sub-categories:

Planet body ................... maybe not the best term for it (rotation, position etc.).
Planet surface (land/sea) without texture (ie. procedurally generated)
Planet surface with texture (from OXP)
Planet atmosphere



Would this help?

Re: Things I Wish I Knew BEFORE Starting this *@*#~&ing .oxp

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2025 12:43 am
by phkb
Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Jul 03, 2025 12:27 am
Would this help?
Probably. It certainly makes more sense than just a long list of properties with no organisation whatsoever.

Re: Things I Wish I Knew BEFORE Starting this *@*#~&ing .oxp

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2025 7:22 am
by Wildeblood
Cholmondely wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 11:39 pm
Just browsing though cim's AltMap's planetinfo.plist (16th July 2015)
STOP DOING THAT!

You've been explained to before that one can store any arbitrary property/value pair in planetinfo or system.info, regardless of whether its functionally implemented or not. Cim was storing numbers he wanted to use in his javascripts, not actual property settings for core Oolite. The only file to look at is
Oolite/oolite.app/Resources/Config/planetinfo.plist.

Re: Things I Wish I Knew BEFORE Starting this *@*#~&ing .oxp

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2025 7:37 am
by Wildeblood
Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Jul 03, 2025 12:27 am
Would this help?
This (thematically dividing the long list of properties) is the problem I had with World Builder, that I was asking last week if you'd help with. Here's my current menu structure:

/* ========================================================
DEFINITIONS OF ALL THE SHORT-CUT MENUS

You can re-arrange and re-name the menus however you like,
subject to the following restrictions:
- world_builder is the starting page, and must exist.
- READONLY is special, and cannot be re-named.
- All oher menus are arbitrary, and may be altered to taste.
=========================================================== */

this._menuItems = {
world_builder: [
"Enter the property to change (case-sensitive), or enter 'HELP'. Below are some of the available properties:",
"name",
"economy",
"economy_description",
"government",
"government_description",
"techlevel",
"population",
"population_description",
"inhabitants",
"productivity",
"radius",
"description"
],
HELP: [
"Enter a keyword (ALL-CAPS) for a menu of relevant properties to change:",
"PEOPLE",
"PLANET",
"ATMOSPHERE",
"SKY",
"STATION",
"SUN",
"READONLY"
],
EXPERT: [
"Enter a keyword (ALL-CAPS) for a menu of relevant properties to change:",
"EXTRAS",
"SYSTEM",
"READONLY"
],
PEOPLE: [
"Enter any property to change (case-sensitive). Below are some of the available properties:",
"description",
"economy",
"economy_description",
"government",
"government_description",
"inhabitant",
"inhabitants",
"name",
"population",
"population_description",
"productivity",
"techlevel"
],
PLANET: [
"Enter any property to change (case-sensitive). Below are SOME of the planet-related properties:",
"illumination_color",
"land_color",
"land_fraction",
"planet_distance",
"planet_distance_multiplier",
"polar_land_color",
"polar_sea_color",
"radius",
"rotational_velocity",
"rotation_speed",
"rotation_speed_factor",
"sea_color",
"terminator_threshold_vector",
"texture",
"texture_hsb_color",
"texture_normspec"
],
ATMOSPHERE: [
"Enter any property to change (case-sensitive). Below are SOME of the atmosphere-related properties:",
"air_color",
"air_color_mix_ratio",
"air_density",
"atmosphere_rotational_velocity",
"cloud_alpha",
"cloud_color",
"cloud_fraction",
"has_atmosphere",
"polar_cloud_color"
],
EXTRAS: [
"Enter any property to change (case-sensitive). Below are some extra planet-related properties:",
"planet_distance_multiplier",
"planet_name",
"rotational_velocity",
"rotation_speed_factor",
"texture",
"texture_hsb_color",
"texture_normspec"
],
SKY: [
"Enter any property to change (case-sensitive). Below are all the sky-related properties:",
"ambient_level",
"nebula_color_1",
"nebula_color_2",
"nebula_count_multiplier",
"sky_blur_alpha",
"sky_blur_cluster_chance",
"sky_blur_scale",
"sky_color_1",
"sky_color_2",
"sky_n_blurs",
"sky_n_stars",
"sky_rgb_colors",
"star_count_multiplier"
],
STATION: [
"Enter any property to change (case-sensitive). Below are all the station-related properties:",
"market_script",
"station",
"station_roll",
"station_vector",
"stations_require_docking_clearance"
],
SUN: [
"Enter any property to change (case-sensitive). Below are all the sun-related properties:",
"corona_flare",
"corona_hues",
"corona_shimmer",
"sun_color",
"sun_distance",
"sun_distance_modifier",
"sun_distance_multiplier",
"sun_gone_nova",
"sun_name",
"sun_radius",
"sun_vector"
],
SYSTEM: [
"Enter any property to change (case-sensitive). Below are some system-related properties:",
"concealment",
"populator",
"random_seed",
"repopulator"
],
READONLY: [
"View read-only properties by selecting an option below:",
"coordinates",
"galaxyID",
"systemID",
"visits", // Explorers' Club
"sun_gone_nova"
]
}
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