Oolite Bulletins

Redspear wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:57 pm

Continued issues with uploading to the wiki (for me at least).

Meanwhile v 0.6 is available here

Righty-ho. Updated with new download link. Just in time for you to maul it mindless over the weekend!




I wonder if your issues with uploading your OXP rewrite are the same as mine in trying to upload a better screen shot for cim's SOTL:

This was the second file I loaded, and is the one that shows here. But the one showing on the linked wiki page is the older more pallid version, and I can't seem to update what is shown there (http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/SOTL_Altmap) - under F6 Galaxy Screen

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:57 pm

Righty-ho. Updated with new download link. Just in time for you to maul it mindless over the weekend!

Dear distinguished Digebitian, dapper delegate, disciple de rigeur, diplomatic doyen, debonair dynast, dominant dominoe don... debted

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:57 pm

I wonder if your issues with uploading your OXP rewrite are the same as mine in trying to upload a better screen shot for cim's SOTL:

Could be related in that we're both trying to update/replace an existing file. I'm probably making a simple oversight somewhere...

Regardless, at least until that part of my brain wakes up it's still available for download (the oxp that is, not my brain...) Perhaps once it does I'll be of more assistance, apologies until then.

just casting my eye over the wiki associated wiki page...

Mining Laser Range 25km

In Oolite, I would not particularly want my mining laser to have a great range - I'd be concerned about others muscling in and nabbing my splinters, so I'd want to be jolly close to my target asteroid. The only exceptions I can think of are (i) defence against Thargoids/splinter nabbers (where the miner will probably die unless scarpering forthwith) and (ii) unusual monstrosities such as that in the Asteroid Storm mission where one needs the range.

Just looking at the wiki page (taken from the first posts in this thread):

So pulse and mining lasers compensate their low damage potential with relatively long range,

(1) This rather seems to conflict with this

There are now SIX categories of player laser... Mining lasers are slow and powerful

(2) I prefer the idea of slow, powerful, but short-ranged mining lasers (which I always presumed that the Oolite vanilla mining laser is). To me it makes more sense in terms of both lore and gameplay. And presumably necessitates a different combat strategy for miners (whether the AI allows it or not) - which also makes sense.

(3) And I wonder, on the matter of AI, whether the size of the NPC's ship (ease of being targeted) has much impact on its combat strategy: A football-field-sized Mining Cobra Mk.3 (130×30×65) vs a Worm (35×25×39). I would guess that these details of the ship's structural quirks do not feature there.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 8:15 am

Mining Laser Range 25km

In Oolite, I would not particularly want my mining laser to have a great range - I'd be concerned about others muscling in and nabbing my splinters, so I'd want to be jolly close to my target asteroid

There are two main reasons for this.

• The mining laser was supposed to be a combat viable laser, an upgrade from a pulse laser
• It suited my purposes that shot power would equate to shot range

The elite manual describes the first point as true but its not really the case within oolite (I can't remember if I also increased the fire rate or not).

So the mining laser now lies (or should) between the pulse and the beam lasers. Furthermore, both of those lasers have superior range to the beam and military lasers (which are otherwise far superior).

So it wasn't so much about what you'd want in a laser (pretty much everything in the case of the military) but rather each laser having its merits or at least its niche.

With regards non-player ships, they very often get caught between a pulse or beam dichotomy with the military being too much for the player to cope with.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 8:15 am

(1) This rather seems to conflict with this

There are now SIX categories of player laser... Mining lasers are slow and powerful

I know it's space but if lasers have a limited range then it's likely due to dissipation. So the more powerful the beam the further it should reach effectively. Realistically power should probably fade with range but that's arguably less fun. So the mining laser IS powerful but it is also slow. It doesn't have the recharge rate of the beam or military lasers (or even the pulse laser).

As I've said before, I needed/wanted to break up the pulse - > beam - > military progression with its huge jumps in combat capability and ultimately leaving non-player ships in the dust whilst simultaneously crushing beginners.

Making the mining laser more combat viable, and adding the burst laser between the beam and military, is not just for player progression but also for non-player variety (not just cosmetics).

Couple of things not working as hoped with this.

Cosmetic: white lasers aren't really satisfying if they show up regularly.

AI: core code for ships seems to expect certain laser ranges for their approach. Consequently, an aggressor can sometimes 'linger' at a range where they are not really a threat.

I've redesigned to address the above and yet still solve the main issues (steep laser progression & pulse/beam dichotomy for non-player ships).

Once I've had a chance to code & upload, I'll put a link here.

Question (just curious).

Is it possible to vary the laser damage with range? More damage close up...

I don't see why not.

Distance to target could be calculated and then an adjustment applied BUT...

I personally don't see it as being any more fun and furthermore I don't think it suits the common experience of oolite.
Speed is a huge factor in combat already and having damage vary with range would further favour the faster vessels.

Of course, one could add other strictures and what not to balance it out but I've already thought up considerably more complex models for this oxp and they were never very satisfying. I'm limiting myself to trying to 'solve' existing problems, whilst being careful not to add new ones.

Redspear wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:51 pm

I don't see why not.

Distance to target could be calculated and then an adjustment applied BUT...

I personally don't see it as being any more fun and furthermore I don't think it suits the common experience of oolite.
Speed is a huge factor in combat already and having damage vary with range would further favour the faster vessels.

Of course, one could add other strictures and what not to balance it out but I've already thought up considerably more complex models for this oxp and they were never very satisfying. I'm limiting myself to trying to 'solve' existing problems, whilst being careful not to add new ones.

So, if I understand you correctly, it would be a case of coming up with a javascript amendment. And, no, it was not a suggestion for you. Merely a question since you were talking about lasers anyway and you know about these things.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:39 am

So, if I understand you correctly, it would be a case of coming up with a javascript amendment.

If I understand it correctly then yes, you're right

Yeah, damage is a set value per hit as you likely know. So changing the value for a weapon isn't difficult but having that value change on the fly requires a little jiggery-pokery.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:39 am

And, no, it was not a suggestion for you.

Understood. Similar has been asked before IIRC and so I took the chance to express my concerns with it.