Oolite Bulletins

hiran wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:01 pm

I think we spoke about some documentation for the vanilla game that users should be familiar with before looking at OXPs.
The first paragraph about MFDs and the first paragraph about primable equipment already directs users towards OXPs. Is that really necessary?
Could we, for beginners, focus on what is possible without OXPs and just describe how to use the existing HUD and primable equipment?

But the fact is, we can’t guarantee the user will start with zero OXPs and learn the game from there. Plus, there is no core game equipment (outside the tutorial) that use either MFDs or primable equipment. Issues with how to use both only happen after OXPs are installed, and if someone is struggling with either, the first stop for many will be the core game documentation, and at the moment the only thing the OoliteRS PDF does is point them to the wiki and the forum (which should be helpful in the end, but not much in the immediate sense.) By adding this extra page, we’re at least acknowledging and documenting the primary methods OXPs will use to add equipment to the player ship.

Having said that, starting with an opening paragraph about OXPs in general, with a gentle warning to be careful with their use, might be beneficial.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:53 pm

But, Hiran, when you joined this board your issues seemed to be with all the OXP stuff. And, much more importantly, you are not alone in that. The old model of starting with Strict and the Tutorial was fine for those who came to Oolite from Elite, and understood that approach (those of us of elderly mien and wizened countenance). Nowadays, teenagers come along and download whatever they like - I rather doubt that dear old Mausnoab Williamston was hunched over a BBC four decades ago launching from Lave. If we are too strict in this regard, will they go elsewhere? Will we end up scaring away those who come and look?

I agree here. But I did not think too much about OXPs. I struggled getting along, and eventually saw some OXP list recommended for beginners. That's where I collected almost all of the plugins I have installed today. But what does it matter? We need to describe how to operate the equipment. And if priming equipment is important, let's describe that. Does it really matter if the list of primeable equipment at that time contains 5 or 500 entries? I guess it is the same with HUDs.

Up until today I have no clue what the vanilla game would be. And I switched to the Vimana HUD based on someone's recommendation. I do not even know whether all the other HUDs would be more of my taste - and it is not important. The more I get along with what I have the better I can make use of it. Right now I am getting exited about the fact that maneuvering and even fighting pirates is possible with the basic ship - whereas in the beginning I was just an easy target. Did I load too many OXPs in my favour? Did I tweak my wallet too much? Did I buy too much of the grand equipment?

Having had all that almost from day one did not make me a successful pilot. But the hints how to prime equipment and use it helped a lot more.

Hence I'd focus more on how to use the stuff than to point pilots to long lists that they still may explore at some later point in time.

phkb wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:55 pm

hiran wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:01 pm

I think we spoke about some documentation for the vanilla game that users should be familiar with before looking at OXPs.
The first paragraph about MFDs and the first paragraph about primable equipment already directs users towards OXPs. Is that really necessary?
Could we, for beginners, focus on what is possible without OXPs and just describe how to use the existing HUD and primable equipment?

But the fact is, we can’t guarantee the user will start with zero OXPs and learn the game from there. Plus, there is no core game equipment (outside the tutorial) that use either MFDs or primable equipment. Issues with how to use both only happen after OXPs are installed, and if someone is struggling with either, the first stop for many will be the core game documentation, and at the moment the only thing the OoliteRS PDF does is point them to the wiki and the forum (which should be helpful in the end, but not much in the immediate sense.) By adding this extra page, we’re at least acknowledging and documenting the primary methods OXPs will use to add equipment to the player ship.

Having said that, starting with an opening paragraph about OXPs in general, with a gentle warning to be careful with their use, might be beneficial.

What? There is no primeable equipment or HUD in the core game? Then I stand corrected. The page would be useless without OXPs...

Primable equipment and MFDs are facilitated by the core game, and are used (almost) exclusively by OXPs.
My cloaking device is in the primable list, and I could make a case for including one MFD in the core game.

Cody wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:55 pm

My cloaking device is in the primable list

Thanks Cody, I'd forgotten about the cloaking device. OK, one piece of core equipment, but most players won't see that item for quite a long time after starting, so OXP's will have almost certainly come first.

phkb wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:18 pm

I'd forgotten about the cloaking device.

So had I - had to run the game, go check, then do a hasty edit.

I've also done a bit of tweaking to pages 1 and 2 of the guide: OoliteRS page 1_2.pdf

Summary of changes:
Page 1:
1. Put the "|" symbol in, rather than Shift + "\", to hopefully make the function clearer to non-QWERTY keyboard users. Not necessarily easier to use, but clearer at least.
2. Changed the font for instances of "I" (capital i) to make it clearer what it is and more distinct from the "|" symbol.
3. Added the reverse functions for cycling MFDs and selecting MFDs.
4. Added the sort/filter keys for the commodities market
5. Added all the F7 keys (Home, End, left and right).
6. Rejigged the layout to have space for the Planetary Data section.
7. A few small font and layout tweaks.

Page 2:
1. Updated the HUD and missle image screen shots
2. Added a screenshot snippet for ship ID recognition.
3. Added a reference to "Primed Equipment".
4. Rejigged the layout to have space for the "Primed Equipment" section.

Once again, feedback welcome. Let me know if any other core-game keys are missing or inadequately described.

Given what these pages are trying to do (provide a quick reference), I'm not sure how much further we should take it. There's probably scope for a different document, like a tutorial in printed form, that takes the player through each screen in detail, with all relevant keys described and with screenshots to aid in understanding (kind of like what you can get for E:D here). That document could also walk through the expansion pack manager interface, tips and tricks, perhaps a subset of some of the combat related info from the wiki, that sort of thing.

Cody wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:51 am

phkb wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:18 pm

I'd forgotten about the cloaking device.

So had I - had to run the game, go check, then do a hasty edit.

There is another way. Go to the wiki http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Index_ ... _Equipment
Sort by expansion, then scroll to the expansion named Oolite 1.90.

Yes, the core game contains a very small amount of equipment. BTW, how would one detect whether it is 'primeable' equipment?

hiran wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:19 am

BTW, how would one detect whether it is 'primeable' equipment?

If the equipment item has a script property set, it’s primable.

phkb wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:38 am

hiran wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:19 am

BTW, how would one detect whether it is 'primeable' equipment?

If the equipment item has a script property set, it’s primable.

Ack. I will add an indicator for primeable equipment.

hiran wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:19 am

There is another way.

I think you misunderstood - I had to check if I had my cloaking device set as primable in my game.

Cody wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:51 am

phkb wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:18 pm

I'd forgotten about the cloaking device.

So had I - had to run the game, go check, then do a hasty edit.

So the vanilla game CD is primable?

I noticed that they are available through several OXPs (which might make it primable, even if the Vanilla does not).

Yes! The cloaking device is a special case. Time was, it couldn't be repaired and mine took an early hit.

BUMP!!

As an additional goal, can those with non-UK/US QWERTY keyboards have a look at the Oolite Reference Sheet keyboard guide and point out the key combos that don't work in your environment? If nothing else, if we can identify the problematic keys, we can highlight them in some way on the keyboard guide and provide some more commentary to help players overcome them.

phkb , July 2021

Oolite Reference Sheet is here: Oolite Reference Sheet

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:54 pm

BUMP!!

The only safe keys are A-Z, 0-9, comma(,) and period(.) -- anything else can be wherever.

In the old days, I could commonly get the desired result by having a picture of a US keyboard handy and pressing the right key, regardless of how it's labeled on my keyboard.

More recently I have to press the keys where they are on my keyboard; this usually works for everything I can do with key, or shift+key; some of them may be in inconvenient places but they work. If I need any other modifier that shift, however, I'm out of luck. These typically do not work at all in a game. That includes the fancy brackets, pipe and backslash {}[]|\
Besides, these keys are in weird places for me and I would want to remap them even if they worked.

Another common problem are "dead" keys which act differently depending on what key I press afterwards. In order to get a caret ^, I have to press that key and then space. Caret-then-a, however, results in the caret becoming an accent like this: â The backtick ' works in a similar fashion. These typically are not usable for gaming, at all.

Long story short, I'm used to defining my own keyboard shortcuts and my only complaint is that Oolite doesn't offer an interface to do so.

Oolite shows a funny combination of the first two behaviours: some actions can be triggered by pressing the buttons as if I had mapped my keyboard to US, other follow my keyboard layout. So I'm now going through several cycles of editing the config file and then seeing what Oolite makes of it. I'm sure I can make it work, eventually... but it's quite inconvenient.