Ruining the classics (screenshot heavy thread)

[Griff]

yeah, i hope to do the full set, it's going to take ages though, from looking at the folder dates on the first one i did, it looks like i started in December last year, and i've done 8 ships since- there's still another 12 to go (not including the stations and other space objects!)

Done
Viper Police Ship
Sidewinder Scout Ship
Thargoid Invasion Ship
Krait
Fer-de-Lance
Cobra Mk III
Cobra Mk I
Adder

Still to do:
Anaconda
Asp Mk II
Boa
boa Mk II
Constrictor
Gecko
Mamba
Moray Star Boat
Python
Shuttle
Transporter
Worm Class Landing Craft



edit: Have we had new smilies on the forum? I look a lot more concerned than usual in that one

[Lestradae]

Hi Griff,

just found out that you have one hell of a typo in all your normalmapped ships shipyard.plists here that will lead to them never, ever being available for sale!

Code: Select all

<key>chance</key>
<string>0.5</string>

... it has to be <real></real>, no strings attached!

Or was this by design for testing or whatever?

Cheers

L

[ClymAngus]

I'll do a deal with you. I'll finish the maps if you finish the ships.

I have this vision; a crusty space trader looks up from his infinity zoom-able vector map of galaxy 2, looks around and wonders at the site of his griff classic cobra mark 3. A shadow plays across the perfectly rendered hull plating as a sleek (SimonB) Neo-anaconda glides effortlessly over head a couple of clicks away.

With a hint of recognition, the irradiated old space dog remarks to his ship in general. "Pretty and quick, but your can't beat a classic, can you old girl" The engines hicup in agreement.

This is the world that should greet new players as standard. One of beauty.

[DaddyHoggy]

I like your vision (and find it in agreement with my own!)

[Lestradae]

Me too (vision-wise).

Have included all this stuff into OSE Beta already and seen to it that it all works in tandem.

Well, I'll have to update all your updates, too - but got no problem with that, as all this stuff is simply that brilliant and amazing. It takes Oolite to a completely new level.

@ClymAngus: I would like to include your maps into the OSE download package when all is ready. You OK with that?



L

[zevans]

I think the OSE world is fantastic too, but it's beginning to make non-shader single-core PCs sweat. However I think you'd only have to remove 5% of super-eyecandy to get it to run on almost anything like vanilla oolite does. (For instance with 0.5 when I was experimenting with that OoBay memory asplosion, I found removing a few flashers helped enormously...)

L / Griff / other ship authors, would you be interested in cooperating on a lo-fi version of OSE if I have a go at reprogramming with a large axe?

And a general question - for those of us running with shaders off, do all the ships degrade gracefully or do some of them assume the shader code on top of the base textures have to be there for it to look right? Might we need to tweak the un-shader version to fake back in some of the pretties with different textures?

What do people think (especially fellow netbook users)

[LittleBear]

I can also confirm that its only a few objects in RS that overpower normal / slow systems. For me taking out Milink's Station did the trick. If one of these is in system (even if its not being drawn) my system instrantly slows to 0 / 4 fps. However without it, it clips along at a reasonabley respectable 30 fps. (I get about 70 fps with no OXPs at all). RS still causes a hit on the fram rate, but 30 is playable. Shaders don't seem to slow my system down at all even though my system can't run them. I just get the ships without the shader effects. It might be worth making the Station a bolt-on, as that seems to be the real killer for slow systems.

[Griff]

my ships look especially crap without all the shaders effects to help them - this is because the base texture map (which is the only map applied to the model when shaders are off) is quite dark and muddy, in game this will make the ships really hard to spot plus they will all have the same drab green/grey colour scheme.
howeve, oolite does allow you to choose a different texture map for non shader enabled use, this is done in the shaders section of the shipdata.plist, eg, here's a snippet from my normal mapped thargoids oxp

Code: Select all

shaders = 
		{ 
            "griff_thargoid_diffuse.png" = // this is the only texture map used when shaders are unavailable/switched off
			{ 
                vertex_shader = "griff_thargoid.vertex"; 
                fragment_shader = "griff_thargoid.fragment"; 
                textures = 
						(
							"griff_thargoid_diffuse.png",  // these are the texture maps used when shaders are switched on
							"griff_thargoid_normal.png",
							{name = "griff_thargoid_scrolling_illum.png"; repeat_t = "yes";},
							{name = "griff_thargoid_reflection_effects.png"; repeat_s = "yes"; repeat_t = "yes";}							
						);

in this case both non-shader oolite and shader enabled oolite are using the same texture base map 'griff_thargoid_diffuse.png'. either of these could be changed for another map, so for instance the non-shader enabled map could be brightened up in a paint program, and have things like the hull lights baked into it (although they wouldn't be 'glowing' - they would fall into shadow along with the rest of the texture, but y'know it still sort of looks OK

with shaders


without shaders

[ClymAngus]

Me too (vision-wise).

Have included all this stuff into OSE Beta already and seen to it that it all works in tandem.

Well, I'll have to update all your updates, too - but got no problem with that, as all this stuff is simply that brilliant and amazing. It takes Oolite to a completely new level.

@ClymAngus: I would like to include your maps into the OSE download package when all is ready. You OK with that?



L

It would be an honour, although fair warning we're looking at a completion date of around December (at this rate anyway), and the credits may grow if anyone actually takes the time to proof read them.

What format would you prefer? I can do cast in stone pdf or openable upable pdf that could be used as a base for future flash work. (but the file is a little bigger.

I also have the template files (illistrator) for constructing your own systems (might be useful for future proofing) anyway whatever you want I can deliver it within reason.

I'm currently sourcing a good print shop. I would love to have all 8 as wallcharts (not that I'm convinced yet that they are 100% accurate) but a print is looking to come out at roughly £15 a pop so even in recession hit times I might indulge.

Speaking of sexy ship layers I really have to take a look at some of my works and see if I can put together some bump maps, etc. As it appears to be fast becoming the future base line for ship manufacture.

[zevans]

For me taking out Milink's Station did the trick. If one of these is in system (even if its not being drawn) my system instrantly slows to 0 / 4 fps.

I hadn't come across that one - cool. I don't see that this could be 3d related though, as you say, so must be in the scripting. If it's in the scripting then maybe some legacy script objects will magically speed up if we moved them across to JS, he said hopefully.

I get about 30 most of the time too, or sometimes 20, but it stays smooth so 20 is OK.

Shaders don't seem to slow my system down at all even though my system can't run them. I just get the ships without the shader effects.

Yep, that's because shader code is offloaded to the graphics card - no capable card, no code gets offloaded. The challenge is (as Griff has just confirmed) that most of the look of a ship designed with shaders relies on the shaders to look self-consistent. Like if you put a coat of primer on and then never got round to painting it.

It might be worth making the Station a bolt-on, as that seems to be the real killer for slow systems.

Is this the brown-ish one? The stations were all OK on mine excepting OoBay.

@Griff - "baking-in" is what I was thinking, half a job better than none. I already have a problem with some ships being very hard to find in trunk-without-OSE.

Lights - the lights on the Vipers seem to work for me - how are they done then?

[Griff]

the viper lights are done using 'flashers' - these are set up in the subentites part of the shipdata.plist. I'm not that clued up on the tech stuff, they're a sort of oolite graphics engine special effect we can add to our ships. http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Shipda ... ubentities


[guesses wildly] i suspect they're some sort of transparency supporting circular gradient texture mapped onto a polygon and billboarded so they always face the player camera head on, they look like they don't get any lighting calculations applied to them and are drawn into the frame after this has been done for the ships/station, this make them look like they are glowing [/guesses wildly]
actually, how awesome would it be if we could specify our own flasher textures? oo, if we could also tie their brightness into shader uniforms, we could get that glowy halo effect around the ships engines!

[Lestradae]

Hey everyone!

@zevans:

I would cooperate for a "light" version of OSE for lower-spec systems, but I would not be able to spend a lot of time on it. I have been spending 10-15 hour weeks of work on this for the last months and am now coming into a state of mind where I want to be done with it, and be just a player again for a longer time. (Not that I won't have to do bugfixes, merge future ship oxps in, update ships oxps that get updated also in/for OSE etc. etc.) - You see where I'm heading.

But if someone does it, I will help with information and suggestions, if it is wished, and would also offer download space on my box account for it.

@LittleBear:

If RS is already bogging your system down then a light OSE version will really be nescessary - it takes noticably more system resources to run that RS. The problem with Milinks ressource-eating station (SIRF Shipyards ingame) I tried to solve by putting it away from the main station Aegis into outer space. That way, the station should only be drawn in full when you are "out there" and there is not a lot of traffic there (usually, at least )

The OoBay Auction stations seem to have take over the part of bogging down reasources at the Aegis, though

@ClymAngus:

Then I feel honoured that you feel honoured

I would suggest to use the maps that have the biggest potential for the future. I have given up on trying to save download size. OSE will probably range in the 270 MB size alone when ready to be published, and concerning future flash work I think the idea of a zoomable map is very cool (and useful!).

So I would use the most impressive and promising maps you produce for adding them in.

OSE V1.0 will probably be ready in early September at my current rate (if I keep to that), but I will have to update OSE regularly anyways, so whenever your maps are ready, I will add them in.

@Griff:

Your ships really are ... well you know. Sadly, my §%$§%$ Vista doesn't do full shaders

They don't seem to bog down my system a lot, though. I found a few hiccups in the normalmapped versions of your ships, solved them, I'll write you a PM about that.

Please, please keep them coming

That is Oolite at its best - spirit of cooperation!

Cheers everyone

L

[Griff]

'Worm Landing Craft' remake

http://www.box.net/shared/l40hmi36o9
I don't think i've ever seen one of these appear in game!

[Killer Wolf]

i didn't think it was possible to make a Worm look cool, but you did!

[Eric Walch]

I don't think i've ever seen one of these appear in game!

They should when waiting long enough. But I think it is because launches are rare by itself. Stations only launch a shuttle every 15 minutes.
But also every planet launches shuttles.
1.73 now has code that shuttles launching from a non-main planet don't head for the main station, but for the nearest station. (Probably we need a new command for that: nearestStationAllowing_NPC_traffic)
Starting with 1.73 shuttles also won't fly strait ahead after launch, but start with a 90 degr turn and only after a few seconds head for the planet. This way the slow shuttles are clearing the launching area quickly for the faster launching ships like vipers.

I noticed when spawning as a "oolite-worm" they do nothing. That is because they have no AI defined. Won't be a problem in game as that role is never called for. When called by its "shuttle" role the autio_ai will give him the right ai.
Maybe that role, "oolite-worm", should be removed totally as it is mend to call for oolite internal ships so you are sure you don't get an oxp ship. "griff-worm" would sound better to me.