RFC: Fancy classics

[Simon B]

The important issue with the Moray is that it's originally a submarine (and still able to be flown underwater as well), not a helicopter.

Don't really see that in your design. Looks like a bat to me. And bats are not specifically renowned for their underwater capabilities.

Good point - of course the original doesn't look like it would have been a sub either. Subs are long and thin ... though the shape is like a manta ray ...

Technically it's the spacecraft equiv of an ATV... in this case, the "terrain" being different densites of fluid.

It also has to operate in air.

Have you ever seen diving birds under water? Gannets fold their wings like that.

Of course I could make a more ray-like design - but that would spoil the lines.

[DaddyHoggy]

I like the Moray a lot - it looks like the "wings" cut usefully cut through water during entry and submersion. Bravo!

[Simon B]

I like the Moray a lot - it looks like the "wings" cut usefully cut through water during entry and submersion. Bravo!

yeah - I've just been talked at by an old collegue who has more water-physics than me.

He made the same observation. The craft is, he says, "interesting" as an underwater ship.

The blunt front means it will super-cavitate at speed - which reduces underwater drag almost to nill - so it would be very fast completely submerged.

The way the real trail off around the engines will help sculpt the turbulent flow to the rear at high speed at aid streamlines at low.

The wings will not be good as lifting bodies - but under water, the tips would stick out of the super-cavitation bubble, aiding control.

Close to the surface, the wings aid stability. The flat profile also makes the craft stable in the water.

At the surface, it might hydroplane off the wingtips (especially if I lowered them) at the front and the two long trailing sections in the back. So, again, it would be very fast as a surface craft.

The wings are very robust - so they would withstand all this treatment. Which includes the possibility of high-speed immersion. (See "Skycaptain" diving his WWII fighter - tornado? - into the sea - that impact should have torn the wings off, or the wings are so reinforced the plane won't fly, but it's CGI high fantasy.)

In the air, it would be very unhappy! But that's what the powerful engines are for. It would be very unstable in the air - making it highly manoeuverable.

The engines are off-center - but maybe they have directional nozzles.

So, overall, I did better than I thought.

I can do a RN Sea-Harrier color if you guys like. (Hmmm... another similar profile - each time I find a similarity, apart from the bat, it's a sea reference.)

[DaddyHoggy]

In the air, it would be very unhappy! But that's what the powerful engines are for. It would be very unstable in the air - making it highly manoeuverable.

One of my old work colleagues an ex-F4 Phantom Pilot used this maxim: "Lift is a gift, but Thrust is a must" and also "The Phantom is proof, that given big enough engines, even a brick can fly."

[Simon B]

Exactly, so we have an experimental advanced-design attack sub with the screws removed and replaced with whatever the stl drive is.

Whatever the performance as a sub may have been, any aquatic excursions nowadays will produce a lot of steam.

I've just been flying the FDL around the game - so far pretty smooth. The total model has 1478 triangles in two objects. Not a hint of trouble.

I do need to know how subentities combine to affect the overall model properties - eg, the density attribute affects mass and hit points? Does the density in the subentity count?


But... nobodies mentioned that Worm...

[DaddyHoggy]

Sorry Simon - I got so caught up in the Moray that I did forget to say that the Worm is still classically the Worm - and therefore, for me, an instant "classic"...

[Screet]

Whatever the performance as a sub may have been, any aquatic excursions nowadays will produce a lot of steam.

But... nobodies mentioned that Worm...

Maybe you're just faster creating ships than people read this thread and manage to comment

It's quite funny that you have those two models in one post, as the Worm resembles very much the classic one but definitely looks better your way. For the type of ship it is, the model fits perfectly. The Moray on the other hand...without your outlines to help, I'd never imagined it to be that ship (or sub). However, I never liked the original version, it always appeared very strange to me. The manta ray association with your version really works, it really looks like something that could well be used underwater to me, thus you managed to make a model that represents the out of the ordinary role of that ship, probably as good as possible! Furthermore, the design looks very good while the original moray never impressed me. If you ask me: even if it's visually very different from the original, you managed to give it the look it should have had initially!

Screet

[Disembodied]

The Worm ... could it be made a bit more, well, blobby? Rounded at the corners? The slight jagginess, especially around the front bottom corners, gives a slightly toothy appearance which I'm maybe finding a bit out of character. Even if the underside was made convex rather than concave (OK, so then it would rock from side to side when set down – but there could be a couple of small pontoons for it to sit on) it would help make the ship more dumpy and inoffensive-looking. More a VW Beetle than a transit van...

The Moray is looking good! The original always looked hunchbacked to me, and although the side-on profile has an element of that, might it be possible to enhance it, perhaps by making the top of the ship convex instead of concave? Give it a more humped and muscular look? It would also make the ship fatter and easier to hit in combat, and let's face it – the Moray is a pretty lousy combat ship...

[ZygoUgo]

The FDL is looking grand, I could imagine some spoilt yuppie in that cabin.
The worm maybe could do with a bit of a belly, the rest of her is spot on, those edges look like landing skis to me.
The moray star boat... stuff physics and the original, put three port holes where her thrusters are and four mini jets the other end...she looks great anyway but that's what I'd do.

EDIT: Sorry Simon back again No idea how you open .tar files so I'm presuming you're doing specular maps too? I'm kind of waiting for Griff to turn up out the blue with those normals before I download..
I was thinking of giving a nod to the old GalCop livery with the star by dressing the rusted version in it, do you like this idea?
How dare you change the design, now I'll have to repaint the OXP ships I've done seperate skins for!

[Screet]

No idea how you open .tar files

If you use Windows, I suggest 7-zip. Vista's built-in zip code cannot handle quite some of the zipped oxp's anyway. 7-zip can. It's free and integrates very well. Furthermore, it's much faster than Vista's zip version!

http://www.7-zip.org/

Screet

[wackyman465]

Gotta say they look great. I love the Moray...

[Frame]

Love most of the designs and textures

however I'm not particular fond of the face markings, it looks like its been welded after its been painted. At my work i fufill multiple roles.

I'm a welder and a painter, as well as I know quite a lot about metal surface treatment. We put metal objects in a so-called sling that bombards the metal surfaces with very small metal balls. this makes the surfaces smooth, yet rough enough so that the paint has something to grab onto.

Anyway, the point being, we smooth out the welding marks before the sling process, so that they are not visible after the paint job.. Only eventually if ever the paint is chipped or falls of, then you can see the welding marks left behind by the heat generated by the welding produces.

For a luxury ship like the fer-de lance.. most buyers in the real world, would be put off by what looks like welding marks..

Take our sea going ships, today they usually build in modules, yet the seems are invisible once it has been painted..

thats my 2 cents.. the textures are still great though..

[Simon B]

The Worm ... could it be made a bit more, well, blobby? Rounded at the corners? The slight jagginess, especially around the front bottom corners, gives a slightly toothy appearance which I'm maybe finding a bit out of character. Even if the underside was made convex rather than concave (OK, so then it would rock from side to side when set down – but there could be a couple of small pontoons for it to sit on) it would help make the ship more dumpy and inoffensive-looking. More a VW Beetle than a transit van...

Tried that - sadly, that makes it look too much like the Galileo shuttle from ST.

Note the scale - taken literally, those front windows are two+ meters tall! So you'd pilot it standing at your ease, or from an elevated chair, before huge picture windows - have you seen how modern buses put the driver high before those huge windscreens? It would make a great touring vehicle - see the sights!

I suspect that this is one of the models which is not to scale with everything else.

The Moray is looking good! The original always looked hunchbacked to me, and although the side-on profile has an element of that, might it be possible to enhance it, perhaps by making the top of the ship convex instead of concave? Give it a more humped and muscular look? It would also make the ship fatter and easier to hit in combat, and let's face it – the Moray is a pretty lousy combat ship...

I know what you mean - I've already lowered the tops of the wings to make the top of the center section stick up. If I move it more, the rest of the model gets distorted.

The med skin turned out nice - I was especially pleased with the way the caduceus turned out ... it's actually half way through what I'd planned for it but some background I'd failed to remove gives it the look of a painted metal miniature from WH40k.


However -
(ZygoUgo) putting intakes on the front is an idea - they'd be the old jet or caterpillar propulsion intakes... don't know what you mean about "portholes".

[Simon B]

Love most of the designs and textures

however I'm not particular fond of the face markings, it looks like its been welded after its been painted. At my work i fufill multiple roles.

face markings? I don't think I used any warpaint...

I'm a welder and a painter, as well as I know quite a lot about metal surface treatment. We put metal objects in a so-called sling that bombards the metal surfaces with very small metal balls. this makes the surfaces smooth, yet rough enough so that the paint has something to grab onto.

Oh, you mean the dark lines around the edges of flat panels. I've done this to raised edges mostly, they are supposed to be where ...

the paint is chipped or falls of, then you can see the welding marks left behind by the heat generated by the welding produces.

Also you get burning on the ridges when you sunskim or graze an atmosphere. You will also see how some of the underlying metal shows through the paint.

The effect is not as convincing as some proffessional skins manage, but I'm taking shortcuts and they make very detailed models with ultra-hi-res skins to make the effort worthwhile (not to mention getting paid.)

While there is a limit to the effort which is reasonable for an oolite ship, even for a sexed up edition, I guess I could apply a motion-blur to those lines: make them look more like wear?

(I had thought of giving the regular sunskimmers a really filthy texture - like a Jerry Anderson shuttle after reentry.)

In modelling, the process is sometimes known as "blacklining" - black shades are added to joins etc where you expect a dark shadow or discoloration. This is to add "definition" to a miniature - and it is needed because you need exaggerated effects in models just to make them look real.

This is also why the model skins are always mucky - all scribbles and smudges - it gives a patina which makes the model look solid. Conpare the earlier (1st impression) images where I just blocked in the colors and applied a uniform edge-blur.

I can get away with less of this if I use a higher res skin, and give you a performance/bandwidth hit into the bargain.

For a luxury ship like the fer-de lance.. most buyers in the real world, would be put off by what looks like welding marks..

... and none of these are factory/showroom models.

It has occurred to me to do a few "brand new" models - all shiny and clean, and at a higher price. Just for show.

[Disembodied]

The Worm ... could it be made a bit more, well, blobby?

Tried that - sadly, that makes it look too much like the Galileo shuttle from ST.

Ah, true, I hadn't thought of that. What about a more radical departure from the original? A sort of segmented, maggoty look:



(only not so big, obviously!) The engine would be on the right-hand side, I think, here.

Even if this isn't a body-plan for the worm, it would make an interesting look for a ship ... even a whole bunch of ships, following the same sort of body plan.