Why was the difficulty of pirates set so high?

[Reval]

Many (most?) here will consider my modest suggestion a heresy, but one of the first things I did with Oolite was go into equipment.plist and, under EQ_WEAPON_MILITARY_LASER, add the line

Code: Select all

 available_to_NPCs = false; 

Now, with at most _beam lasers_ the mobs of pirates and hunters have a much harder time reducing me to wreckage and hamburger, and Oolite is suddenly a delight to experience. Couple the above with the PopulationControl OXP while avoiding the 'corridor' and the entire Ooniverse becomes a trader's untroubled paradise.

Oh, and don't forget to pack your ENERGY BOMB!

<Commander Reval now ducks and covers his head>

[Shindo]

I must say I love how the enemies aren't a push over in the game. I'm not the best combat pilot out there (I'd even go as far as saying I need to get in a lot more practice to improve my meagre skills), Yes I die a lot but I take it as learning opportunities.

But with that said there is room for improvement on the side of the AIs for the enemy pilots. The following are observations based on having played other games with bots/reactive enemies in them.

Combat ability should be based on their skill setting with the following as examples

• Their ability to aim at range should be based on their combat rating, an elite enemy shouldn't be missing a small ship much from 20km out vs a mostly harmless pilot who couldn't hit an Anaconda from 5kms out.
• when missing their shots or you start to evade, the elite pilot should quickly compensate while the mostly harmless one will probably overheat his laser strafing all over the place
• When evading fire the enemy pilots combat rating should have an impact on how innovative they are in the methods employed to break your direct fire. Elite rated pilots should be unpredictable, some times rolling and yawing while diving and climbing while the mostly harmless pilot will pick a strategy and stick with it during combat.
• Changing speed during evasive and engagement manoeuvring would also make a difference with more experienced pilots lowering their speed briefly to allow for tighter turns while the less experienced pilots stay at full speed making their turning circle so much larger

Subtle changes like those listed above allow for a much greater variation in encounters without having to drastically alter the core balance and mechanics of the game itself. The only thing that would possibly need to be addressed is making the distribution of rated enemy pilots seem relevant. Not every pirate band is going to have an elite rated pilot in it and with the ability to adjust things via OXPs it is then possible to increase or decrease the difficulty of your own instance by tweaking the general rating of pirate encounters.

[another_commander]

Hi and welcome

Most, if not all, of what you have proposed is already implemented. But it will be tricky to see it in the core, unmodified game. There are no Elite rating pilots in the standard game; the most you will encounter are at around the Poor level. If you install the hardening OXPs like Skilled NPCs, you will be able to see how the higher AI levels react, especially their evasive actions. Try dogfighting with an accuracy 9 or 10 Sidewinder - it can get wild.

[Reval]

I must say I love how the enemies aren't a push over in the game.

You know, in my short time here, I'm becoming more and more convinced that this 'pirate question' is an age thing. For many of us (for me at least), combat puts an unacceptable strain on the old carpals and the old eyesight - not to mention raising stress levels and heart-rate. (never a good thing over 60, hehe). And in Oolite it has to be conceded that this frantic grappling with keys and joystick is extreme.

The great, great thing about Oolite, though, is that it effortlessly accommodates all tastes and inclinations (and ages). A few little tweaks and OXPs and you can be whatever your heart desires. Yea, even a harmless amphibioid Space Grocer shuttling furs and comps between Xexedi and Laenin

You can live in a peaceable Ooniverse or a violent one by simply choosing to travel - or avoid - the space lanes. And you can let your imaginatioin and fantasy have free rein...

Your suggestions are valid and creative (though whether practicable or attainable is another matter, as another_commander said).

Welcome aboard, Cap'n Shindo, and have at them miscreants!

[Cholmondely]

Yes I die a lot but I take it as learning opportunities.

Welcome to the merry throng!

[Bogatyr]

Injectors. You can't survive almost any encounter with hostiles (unless one-on-one perhaps) in oolite without them. You can dodge and outrun missiles with injectors, without them, you've got a couple attempts at lining up a shot on the missile but that's it. There are only two kinds of play in oolite: before injectors, and after injectors. The early game is a crap shoot as to whether you're going to encounter a hostile group before you get injectors. If you do encounter hostiles without injectors, the great likelihood is that it will be "Press space, commander."

[hiran]

Injectors. You can't survive almost any encounter with hostiles (unless one-on-one perhaps) in oolite without them. You can dodge and outrun missiles with injectors, without them, you've got a couple attempts at lining up a shot on the missile but that's it. There are only two kinds of play in oolite: before injectors, and after injectors. The early game is a crap shoot as to whether you're going to encounter a hostile group before you get injectors. If you do encounter hostiles without injectors, the great likelihood is that it will be "Press space, commander."

There is another way to escape without injectors:
ECM and barrel rolling. It just takes forever...

[Disembodied]

There is another way to escape without injectors:
ECM and barrel rolling. It just takes forever...

There's the third option: give the pirates some cargo. The best way to do this is to turn 90° to the flightpath to the station - ideally away from the incoming hostiles - and eject the required number of cargo canisters at around 80% speed. This means the pirates will have to chase off after their loot and give you time to clear masslock before they start wondering what else you might be carrying. Yes, it's a bruise to the ego. Yes, it's a hit in the pocket, too - but carrying 5TCs of Food to buy your way out of trouble is cheaper than a funeral.

[Rekrul]

Basically, the only way to sruvive being jumped by a giant swarm of pirates is to run away. And most pirate attacks are quite large. The times you get jumped by a small enough group of pirates that you can actually fight them off is rather rare. And most likely, while dealing with those pirates, you'll get jumped by another, larger group.

And the one time I encountered a Thargoid, it was hopeless. Unlike Elite, the Thargoids in Oolite don't have a front and back to their ships (they did in Elite, even if it wasn't visually depicted), which means that they can attack from any angle and there's really no time that they aren't attacking. So once you get in range, it's just a continuous barrage of laser fire. If you dare stop spinning long enough to try and line up a shot, you get pummeled into oblivion.

[Redspear]

Basically, the only way to sruvive being jumped by a giant swarm of pirates is to run away. And most pirate attacks are quite large. The times you get jumped by a small enough group of pirates that you can actually fight them off is rather rare.

Well, yeah... Some of us have been trying to oxp options around that (one of them is even in my signature) and they certainly help. phkb's 'population control' is one and the more recent Disembodied inspired 'paddling pool' another that can help you to get started.

And getting started is the problem really, one military laser laster and most pirate amushers had better watch out. To address that jump in laser capabilty I wrote 'Laser Combat Reimagined' (which was all wrong on the wiki last I looked) but it seems there are some issues around hard coded laser values for non-player ships that I need to navigate for the next update.

And the one time I encountered a Thargoid, it was hopeless. Unlike Elite, the Thargoids in Oolite don't have a front and back to their ships

And in elite you could outrun them too...

[Cody]

Back in the day, there were some who thought Elite was too difficult, but once you'd got an aft laser, it became a turkey shoot!

[Bogatyr]

Injectors. You can't survive almost any encounter with hostiles (unless one-on-one perhaps) in oolite without them. You can dodge and outrun missiles with injectors, without them, you've got a couple attempts at lining up a shot on the missile but that's it. There are only two kinds of play in oolite: before injectors, and after injectors. The early game is a crap shoot as to whether you're going to encounter a hostile group before you get injectors. If you do encounter hostiles without injectors, the great likelihood is that it will be "Press space, commander."

There is another way to escape without injectors:
ECM and barrel rolling. It just takes forever...

In the early game, my first equipment purchase is always injectors. Injectors are both offensive and defensive, so are worth way more than an ECM.
(With injectors you can escape Hard heads). It's usually worth selling the pulse laser right away in order to be able to earn more, faster, in order to make that critical purchase. The pulse laser on a new commander ship without injectors is not sufficient to fight off even a small group.

Yeah, I've done barrel roll "escapes" (works best in a tiny ship, like an adder, with the MkIII it works somewhat, and in a Python I don't think it works at all (?)), but more than 200km of this (and probably sooner) and I start to think "is this fun?" And I'm not sure it works against larger groups of stronger pirates with injectors, where they could get ahead of you...(haven't verified).

In fact, in my current game I just started, I got jumped by pirates in a corporate state, and barrel rolled towards the planet, praying for the cops to show up, which thank heavens they did, bless their little, purple hearts, and inevitable death was delayed somewhat.

[hiran]

Yeah, I've done barrel roll "escapes" (works best in a tiny ship, like an adder, with the MkIII it works somewhat, and in a Python I don't think it works at all (?)), but more than 200km of this (and probably sooner) and I start to think "is this fun?" And I'm not sure it works against larger groups of stronger pirates with injectors, where they could get ahead of you...(haven't verified).

Thinking about cases where barrel rolls work better or worse...
I have barrel-rolled the Imperial Star Destroyer and it worked good (some shots still came through but definitely less than the shield generators were capable of). Now what could make the barrel roll more or less efficient?

I think factors are:
* speed of ship
* roll, pitch and yaw rates
* size of ship
* shape of ship

Regardless of the speed and agility, if the ship is big enough it could spiral around a center axis, and this center axis might always be covered by some part of the ship. Which means there is a line that could be efficiently used for hitting with lasers despite the barrel roll. I takes probably some mathematician to figure out where or how much this is the case. And I believe the AI is dumb enough to aim for the center of the ship, which is still spiraling and thus dodging a direct hit...

A countermeasure could be for suitable shaped ships: If e.g. the Cobra MKIII were bad at barrel-rolling using pitch and roll, one could switch to using yaw and roll. Or go to a completely different spiral using pitch and yaw - but that better be done for the Barrel-Roll OXP...