"Galaxies" or "Galaxy Sectors"

[zevans]

There are many theories around, and you are free to choose which one you like.

Oolite M-theory. I like it.

...or even like the eight sectors of a 2x2x2 box. (Remember that the maps are 2-dimensional representations of 3-dimensional sectors of space!)

Yeah, but this one is unlikely, because then you get into problems like "why can't you jump up into 5 instead of spinward into 2?" and that the galaxy is far wider than it is deep.

But at the end of the day, who cares?

No-one, I'm just riffing...

[Commander McLane]

FFE presumably is set between 3125 and 3140 then, whilst Earth is still connected?

No, it starts 3200 (explicitly, therefore canon). Which gave Selezen the reason in the first place to make the timeline. Because you somehow have to explain why there are eight "galaxies" in 3125ff, and a very powerful GalCop, but only one "galaxy" containing much fewer worlds is left in 3200, and GalCop has vanished without a trace, and instead we have a Federation and an Empire, and Earth is "back" on the map.

Selezen's whole effort is to find a theory to explain the obvious contradictions between Elite and Frontier (which in RealLife were produced, because Braben just didn't care), by still placing them in the same universe and understanding Frontier as a continuation of Elite.

Oolite only gets placed in the middle, because stations, ships, etc. in it seem more developed than in Elite. The 16 years between Elite and Oolite however are completely arbitrary. Selezen explains somewhere why he coose 16 years, I think it reflects the time between the release of Elite (1984) and something that happened in 2000 (release of Elite: TNK?!?).

However, by serving this purpose he came up with a very convincing timeline (on his website he makes very precise distinctions between canonical and semi-canonical material and his own conjunctions), which I for myself have declared canonic wholesale, and am trying to keep faithful to. But of course nobody needs to follow me here. Still, the canonical elements of the timeline (taken from manuals and official novella) should be taken as canonical.

@ Selezen: by the way, since you re-organised your website the link in your signature doesn't work anymore. Could you refresh it? Thanks!

[matthewfarmery]

just adding my two cents worth, I would go with sectors, not galaxies, our own galaxy is massive, elites and Oolite's galaxies are tiny in comparison, unless its a mighty same mini galaxy. (there are a few tiny ones around our own galaxy, but I would still say sectors, and being in one galaxy rather then 8, just my opinion

[Selezen]

What link? Both links in my signature work!

Thanks, by the way, for adopting the timeline/theory thing. It's nice that I wrote something that is useful. I'm not sure where you got the 16 years between Elite and Oolite explanation though. There's an 18 year gap between the start of Elite and the beginning of the end of GalCop that is based on the time between Elite and the year I wrote the timeline (2002) but that's about it. Yeah, that's a very arbitrary way of deciding the timescale...but it fits nicely...

The time scale between Elite and Oolite was calculated on the fly as I wrote out the separate Oolite appendix to allow enough time between the different "upgrades" being implemented (representing the 16-bit era) and to allow enough time for the rise of the garage manufacturers and the technological renaissance of the Oolite era (representing the OXP system) before Galcop's final crash.

As I said to McLane if anyone wants to use the timeline, feel free. If there's anything else that you think could be expanded on then please let me know. I have lots of extra notes lying around that were put together when I made the timeline so some other stuff might be covered.

I even have detailed overviews of the reasons and events surrounding the formation of GalCop (and the Far Colonies), the fall of GalCop and exactly why the other galaxies can't be accessed by the Frontier era. These are based in my own fiction and the Elite RPG I used to run, which is why I didn't include them in the timeline - I was trying to keep the timeline as close to relevant canon as possible. I've always resisted putting them online as I wanted to reveal them in the stories, but real life is making it obvious that the chance to write the stories is going to be a long time coming, so if anyone shows an interest I'll post it up.

[drew]

Interesting discussion!

I did allude to all this in 'Status Quo', mentioning an embarressing confusion for the Galactic President when he was forced to recind a comment about mankind having dominion over eight galaxies when it was discovered the 'Charts' (as I called them) were all in the same galaxy.

I went a bit further in 'Nine' - exploring how the eight charts locked together in a 3D arrangement with a 'missing' area.

My view is that names always get shortened to what's useful. I doubt traders would continue to say 'Galaxy' (3 syllables is too time expensive - maybe 'Gal'), 'Sector' (better, but still 2 syllables). Chart is easiest. Chart is also a bit more 'navigational' as in 'Charting your path/destination/voyage' and has a bit more historical Naval attachment...

That was my thinking anyway.

Oolite only gets placed in the middle, because stations, ships, etc. in it seem more developed than in Elite. The 16 years between Elite and Oolite however are completely arbitrary. Selezen explains somewhere why he coose 16 years, I think it reflects the time between the release of Elite (1984) and something that happened in 2000 (release of Elite: TNK?!?).

I tried to address this in Mutabilis, trying to indicate that the sudden increase in ship complexity in the 16 years between Elite and Oolite was due to Raxxla...

my £0.02

Cheers,

Drew.

[Commander McLane]

I'm not sure where you got the 16 years between Elite and Oolite explanation though. There's an 18 year gap between the start of Elite and the beginning of the end of GalCop that is based on the time between Elite and the year I wrote the timeline (2002) but that's about it.

Obviously I just misremembered the 18 as 16. Never mind.

[Zieman]

About the timelines...

Frontier Elite 2 was set in year 3200, Frontier: First Encounters 50 years later (3250).

For some odd reason I recall the original Elite to be set in year 3200 too...
Elite manual states this: "For a fuller account see Jane's Galactic Ships and Remote Colonial Construction, 5th Edition, 3205 pub. Trantor House" in the Observer's guide to ships in service.

[Selezen]

Yeah, that's the big inconsistency in the whole thing, since the Gazetteer in Frontier definitely sets Frontier ahead of Elite (by mentioning that Elite's rainforests have all but gone) but the so-called publishing date of Jane's Galactic Ships seems to be 3205. I bypass this be assuming that the 3205 does not actually mean the year 3205. It could be a reference code, a local date/time reference or some other thing...

[PhantorGorth]

Yep, except we know from Word Of God (by which I mean canon) that this is in fact parts of the Milky Way, which has four unequal arms (as of this week, in fact!), not 8. So my plan now falls to bits! Bugger.

You don't have to worry about arms. Most people think that the gap between arms is devoid of stars but that isn't true. There is only about 5% less stars in the inter-arm regions compared to the arms. The reason the arms look bright is that they contain the young bright and short lived stars that form due to a density wave that causes the arms. (These star are so short live that they don't disperse enough to mask this density wave.) Instead most stars are very much dimmer that those bright O and B stars. When you look at an image of a galaxy the reason the inter-arm regions look dark are the same reason that sun-spots look black. They are not black just a bit dimmer than the surrounding parts.

My Ooniverse Map with Species Idea v3.pdf shows an example of how things could be arranged.

So you can have these sectors as you describe just they don't have to be all in separate arms.

[Zieman]

I like the idea PhantorGorth.