community OXP start pack

[JazHaz]

But what I was trying to put across is that the collection would be aimed at a new player, someone who just wants a few oxps to improve vanilla oolite without changing it massively or ramping up the difficulty level.

Wait, that was my point too. Which of those is unsuitable for a new player?

You don't want to ramp up the difficulty too quickly!! Otherwise a new player might get frustrated and stop playing!

[Cmdr James]

Agreed. Which OXPs are you complaining about adding too much dificulty?

I chose the list based on not changing the game too much, having things that appear relatively early, and those things chosen to be useful to a new player. Like Black monks, lave academy, and so on. I dont see any OXPs that add difficulty at all.

[DaddyHoggy]

ovvldc wrote:
* snoopers
I've not tried this one at all, but like the flying dutchman.oxp, what is the point? Also, according to its wiki page "To get the full fun play in fullshader mode, reduced details off". Doesn't sound like its suitable for a low-end machine to me!

Seems a little unfair to poo-poo an oxp having not tried it. Full shaders are required to see the fantastic work Svengali did in making rotating items appear in a static mission screen - but the oxp itself is unaffected if you do not have shaders - the point of the oxp is many-fold 1) to introduce a fantastic mission message injection system into the game and 2) to add flavour to the game to make the player feel as if he is not alone, that the Ooniverse is happening elsewhere without him/her.

And what's low end? I used to have an Athlon 2500+ and an FX5600 - now that's low-end, but it could still do shaders (I'm not much better off now - XP 2800+ and an GF6600GT)

[JazHaz]

ovvldc wrote:
* snoopers
I've not tried this one at all, but like the flying dutchman.oxp, what is the point? Also, according to its wiki page "To get the full fun play in fullshader mode, reduced details off". Doesn't sound like its suitable for a low-end machine to me!

Seems a little unfair to poo-poo an oxp having not tried it.

Fair enough, if it expands mission texts. Didn't know it could do that. Thought it was a news service type of thing that didn't give the player *useful* information.

And what's low end? I used to have an Athlon 2500+ and an FX5600 - now that's low-end, but it could still do shaders (I'm not much better off now - XP 2800+ and an GF6600GT)

I'm on a cheap £300 laptop, with on-motherboard graphics, non-shader. Definately low end.

[DaddyHoggy]

ovvldc wrote:
* snoopers
I've not tried this one at all, but like the flying dutchman.oxp, what is the point? Also, according to its wiki page "To get the full fun play in fullshader mode, reduced details off". Doesn't sound like its suitable for a low-end machine to me!

Seems a little unfair to poo-poo an oxp having not tried it.

Fair enough, if it expands mission texts. Didn't know it could do that. Thought it was a news service type of thing that didn't give the player *useful* information.

And what's low end? I used to have an Athlon 2500+ and an FX5600 - now that's low-end, but it could still do shaders (I'm not much better off now - XP 2800+ and an GF6600GT)

I'm on a cheap £300 laptop, with on-motherboard graphics, non-shader. Definately low end.

Integrated laptop graphics seem to be the bane of Oolite life - I've not bought several laptops because of horrible GMA9XX graphics.

With regards snoopers - it currently only adds random news items when you dock - but the mechanism is fully capable of injecting additional text from any other mission oxp that wants to use it - just nobody is yet...

[JazHaz]

To me the whole point of a new-starters OXP pack, would be to include OXPs aimed at new players and low end machines.

New players don't want something that makes the game too hard, too quickly. Yes when they get into the game they can install something that will ramp up the difficulty, but not for the first few days.

Also OXPs that run on low end machines are suitable for everyone. The latest gaming machine with super duper graphics will run it. As will a cheapo netbook/laptop. You want this to be suitable for everyone!

[Cmdr James]

Dude no one is arguing with that. I am only asking which of the OXPs I suggested are a problem. You have said both that they are no good on low end systems, and that they are too hard.

Im just asking for clarification

[JazHaz]

With regards snoopers - it currently only adds random news items when you dock - but the mechanism is fully capable of injecting additional text from any other mission oxp that wants to use it - just nobody is yet...

Just downloaded and installed it!

[DaddyHoggy]

With regards snoopers - it currently only adds random news items when you dock - but the mechanism is fully capable of injecting additional text from any other mission oxp that wants to use it - just nobody is yet...

Just downloaded and installed it!

You won't get a news item everytime you dock, but the readme explains how to fiddle with the frequency if you find they come too often or not often enough. I hope you enjoy the words (my small contribution (along with Drew) to this excellent joint contribution to the Ooniverse)

[Disembodied]

For beginning players, I'd suggest

* Long Way Round
* Asteroid Storm

as missions suitable for novices;

* Commies
* Dictators
* Your Ad Here
* UPS

as expansions to trading/career possibilites;

* Fuel Tank
* Ore Processor

as useful widgets; and

* M-Pack (Rusties)

as a first ship OXP (which also allows trade-ins for second-hand ships).

I don't think it's sensible to insist that a starter pack should be suitable for novices AND suitable for low-end machines. The two are not the same, after all. By all means suggest OXPs for novices, and OXPs for those with low-end machines, but some novices will have bleeding-edge kit, and some veterans won't. This, to me, is the core benefit of the pick-and-choose nature of OXPs, and the drawback of the bundle-it-up approach. Personally I think it would make more sense just to list those OXPs suitable for novices and indicate whether they need high-end machines or not to run them. Then let people make their own selection.

[JazHaz]

Dude no one is arguing with that. I am only asking which of the OXPs I suggested are a problem. You have said both that they are no good on low end systems, and that they are too hard.

Im just asking for clarification

Id go with

Asteroid storm
black monks
Dictators/Commies/Ararchies
Diso
Hoopy casino
Lave academy
Missionaries
oldships
Graveyard
Total patrol
ups

Dictators/Commies/Anarchies, Black Monks - well i think these add too many new ships/stations etc. Too many for a new player. Fair enough, recommend them for a future upgrade, just not on the first day.

Graveyard - I assume you mean the Tionsala Orbital Graveyard? Who has read The Dark Wheel these days? Not many new players!! Unless we think about including it in the distribution for Oolite like it was with the original Elite. Also I have reservations about it being suitable for low end machines.

Total Patrol - I understand the reasoning about this one, but for a new player? Would they see the benefit? Play vanilla for a few days and then make up their own mind as to whether to install it or not.

[Cmdr James]

Disembodied thats pretty close to my selection. I agree with rusties too. Personally Im not a fan of yah as i have enough ads in real life, but i can see the attraction and it is quite fun.

I wouldnt imagine most of them will cause performance problems do they? Im sure none require shaders to look good.

I regard total patrol as a bug fix

black monks are a very sensible early OXP, as thats pretty much the only time they are useful.

[Lucidor]

I agree with Disembodied about the structure of the page. A few recommendations (selected by the community) with descriptions and requirements and links to their wiki pages.

And at the bottom of the page "And many many more..." which would link to the total list on the wiki.

[Svengali]

* snoopers

Doesn't sound like its suitable for a low-end machine to me!

We have implemented a switch (this.extraA), simply set it to false. And starting with v1.74 it can detect the used mode, so a player doesn't have to do it manually anymore. It's simply a flavour oxp, not required, not recommended, not specially for high-end systems .-)

The idea was not only to display some (rare) newsflashes. DaddyHoggy (sometimes a bit shy), Drew (refuses to be called crazy guy) and Disembodied (piccies with a pinch of salt) have done a superjob, so Snoopers introduces players to the ooniverse and oxps. Additionally it's a platform for other oxps to insert own newsflashes/stories (e.g. Eric's UPS-courier (v1.6 and later) uses this mechanism already, if installed).

But back to the topic...

[JensAyton]

Thats isnt at all my interpretation, I thought it was a start pack with a selection of OXPs that are fairly uncontroversial which makes it easier to start off your OXP set without all the pain of checking them all.

That was my intention.

While system requirements should be a consideration, a collection that only includes the simplest things possible won’t be a very good showcase. Besides, if the collection consists of discrete OXPs, you can include documentation pointing out which should be removed for a low-end system.

The point of bundling them together is not to force people to use them all, but to make it easier to get started. Instructions along the lines of “to get started, you should download and install these twelve things (each with slightly different package layout and its own documentation)” is too linuxy inelegant and obstructive.