OXP Idea: Traderoutes

[treczoks]

Hi!

I'm still far, far away from writing an OXP on my own, but I've got the feeling that there is something missing in the Ooniverse: Increased traffic along the trade routes (As established in the vector maps).

So, how about an OXP that

• * Adds more NPC traders in systems along the route,
  • * entering at witchpoint from one of the neighboring system of the trade route (maybe even with the "correct" goods for coming from a particular system) or
    * leaving the station and witching to another neighboring system (also with the right kind of trading goods)
  * Possibly increases presence of GalCop ships protecting the trade route.
  * Offering more trading contracts than usual.

As I said, I'm in no position to pull this trhough, so I just wanted to seed this idea into a hopefully fertile ground...

Yours, Christian

[Commander McLane]

While I am not sure whether I generally would want more NPC traffic (but that's just a matter of personal liking, so feel free to ignore my opinion), there are some issues with your idea:

We cannot currently control NPC witchjumps. There is no way to set a specific destination for a NPC jumping out from the main station. The game engine will choose one of the systems in range completely randomly. So we cannot make a ship follow a route.

Equally, we cannot make a ship "jump in" from a specific system. Actually the ships you see arriving at the witchpoint don't arrive from anywhere. They are just created where they are. It is your imagination which gives them a place where they departed from.

However, what may be done by script is to have traders spawn specific cargo (the one which sells best in the current system) when killed. Although we would have to think about game balance here as well. Do we want the pirating player automatically to get the most profitable goods for his current system?

On a general note: It is my understanding that the "trade routes" are those routes which allow a clever trader the most profit from milk-runs, right? So they are something clever pilots have come up with, not something officially recognized by GalCop. So I don't see why GalCop should assign more police ships to the systems involved. One coud even argue that the systems not included in any route would demand more police, in order to attract more traders.

[Thargoid]

The idea's a good one, and a logical next step from various works that are ongoing (CA's vector maps and PAGrooves Famous Planets to name two, with quite possibly a lot more).

Unfortunately only part of what you want to do is possible under Oolite (at the moment). We can add more traders to particular systems, but we can't make them come from or jump out to specific systems (although that may be imminently changing as there seems to be interest and work in this area iirc).

Similarly the right kind of goods is tricky. For generic traders their cargo's are decided randomly when they die (what's spawned in terms of pods etc). It is possible to overrule this with scripting, but given the arrays needed of locations and cargoes it would be a brain-bender.

The other bits can all be done fairly easily already. So I would personally say it's a very good idea whose time may have to wait a little bit. Unless of course people cleverer than me who are already playing with 1.74 trunk (or know the guts of 1.73.4 deeper) can see ways around the known blocks.

[Commander McLane]

Similarly the right kind of goods is tricky. For generic traders their cargo's are decided randomly when they die (what's spawned in terms of pods etc). It is possible to overrule this with scripting, but given the arrays needed of locations and cargoes it would be a brain-bender.

Don't think too complicated here, with arrays and whatnot. We are talking about incoming traders only, and they would have whatever is expensive in the current system. So one check is enough: high economy = computers, low economy = furs.

[Thargoid]

See, I told you someone cleverer than me would have a good idea about it

Or at least it just shows how often I (don't) play the game these days...

[Commander McLane]

See, I told you someone cleverer than me would have a good idea about it

That wouldn't be me, however. Reading my previous post I see that I got it all wrong. Of course it would have to be exactly the other way round: high economy = furs, low economy = computers.

[treczoks]

We cannot currently control NPC witchjumps. There is no way to set a specific destination for a NPC jumping out from the main station. The game engine will choose one of the systems in range completely randomly. So we cannot make a ship follow a route.

OK, that is an issue, but that could be addressed on the long run.

Equally, we cannot make a ship "jump in" from a specific system. Actually the ships you see arriving at the witchpoint don't arrive from anywhere. They are just created where they are. It is your imagination which gives them a place where they departed from.

I suspected such to be the case, but it does not really matter, as long as they have realistic trade goods (although this is only a side issue).

However, what may be done by script is to have traders spawn specific cargo (the one which sells best in the current system) when killed. Although we would have to think about game balance here as well. Do we want the pirating player automatically to get the most profitable goods for his current system?

Well, even a dumb NPC trader should have the brains to transport things to get at least a small plus, so stuffing the NPCs that are heading towards the station with the proper trade goods (most of the time) makes them more realistic. And for the player piracy problem there are the GalCop vipers. It was not my intention to create pinatas here

On a general note: It is my understanding that the "trade routes" are those routes which allow a clever trader the most profit from milk-runs, right? So they are something clever pilots have come up with, not something officially recognized by GalCop.

Well, it is not just milk runs (most milk runs involve only two systems, maximum three, like in Alaza-Tianve-Teanrebi). The Trade Routes run basically from one end of the map to the other.

So I don't see why GalCop should assign more police ships to the systems involved. One coud even argue that the systems not included in any route would demand more police, in order to attract more traders.

Well, one reason could be to discourage pirate players. And the other systems' demands? Well, who in the Ooniverse understands GalCop policies and politics?

Yours, Christian

[ClymAngus]

interesting idea, the exact nature of the alterations would of course rely on their "doability" but also the nature of the route itself. G4 for instance has two refugee routes which would need thinking about. Some routes are illegal trade runs. Question is does any of these cercomstances make any of the routes a shed load easier to programme?

If so maybe it would be an idea to look at an easier smaller route at first to test it out. It's still a lot of routes and a lot of challenging programming for any code monkey that takes it on. Unless of course it turned into a shared project, code swap thing.

Initially these routes (I believe) were to embelish the mythos of the world without demanding much (if any) actual work from anyone. Good infill for novella and pilot options for better profit.

so the routes work already (in a manner of speaking) given the programming issues I wouldn't stare too hard at it for the time being however. All in good time.

[pagroove]

Hi,

In the Galaxy Guide you mention special goods like Lavese bacons from lave. Are these goods oxp'able. I can imagine that those bacons become more rare when sold at the other end of the Ooniverse. A bit like the middle ages when silk from China was an 'exotic' product in Europe.

[treczoks]

In the Galaxy Guide you mention special goods like Lavese bacons from lave. Are these goods oxp'able. I can imagine that those bacons become more rare when sold at the other end of the Ooniverse. A bit like the middle ages when silk from China was an 'exotic' product in Europe.

Well, no, they are just transported in normal, nondescript food cargo pods, just like the TV dinners, nutri-pills and famous Raxxlanese cheeses.

Actually, the software that generates the Traders Almanach can generate a number of fancy names for the goods. As soon as the GG is done, I'll pack up the whole software on the web, so the guide can be recreated (or someone can do even better things than I ever could). And maybe someone is even interested in the script that calculates where the milk runs are

Basically, the code replaces

"Food", "Textiles", "Radioactives", "Liquor/Wines", "Luxuries", "Computers", "Machinery", "Alloys", "Furs", "Minerals", "Gold", "Platinum", "Gem-Stones"

with matching replacements from this list:

"food containers+those food containers",
"[hereian] breads+those breads",
"[hereian] bacons+those breads",
"[hereian] sushi dinners+those sushi dinners",
"[famous] [here]ian '[random] pies'+'[lastrandom] pies'",
"bargain TV dinners+those TV dinners",
"nutri-pills+these tasteless nutri-pills",
"[hereian] cheeses+those cheeses",
"[famous] [here]ian cheeses+those cheeses"
"textiles+those textile items",
"clothes+the clothes I mentioned",
"[hereian] clothes+those clothes",
"socks+these [famous] socks",
"[hereian] socks+these aforementioned socks",
"[famous] [hereian] lingerie sets+those lingerie sets",
"[hereian] sets of underware+those underwear sets",
"silk bales+those bales of silk",
"[famous] [hereian] silk scarves+those scarves",
"shoes+those [famous] shoes",
"radioactives",
"radioactive isotopes",
"nuclear fuel rods",
"plutonium containers"
"liquors+these liquors",
"[hereian] liquors+these liquors I mentioned",
"bottles of the [famous] liquor they call '[random]'+'[lastrandom]' bottles",
"casks of '[random]' - a liquor they distill only in [here] -+'[lastrandom]",
"wines+these plain wines",
"[hereian] wines+those [famous] wines",
"barrels containing the [famous] wine from the sloping hills of [here]+wine barrels",
"beers+those beers",
"beers made using the [famous] [hereian] hops+those beers",
"[hereian] beers+those [famous] beers",
"containers of '[random]', the [famous] beer only made in [here],+containers of '[lastrandom]'",
"brandy bottles+the brandy",
"containers with the [famous] [hereian] drink '[random]'+'[lastrandom]' bottles",
"vodka bottles+the vodka",
"barrels with [hereian] gin+those gin barrels",
"casks containing [hereian] single malt whiskey+those whiskey casks",
"luxuries+these assorted luxuries",
"hand-made [hereian] sculptures+those sculptures",
"[hereian] modern art items+those art items",
"[hereian] furniture items made from real wood+those furniture items",
"[hereian] musical instruments+those instruments",
"crystal vases+those [hereian] vases"
"computers+the computers",
"microprocessors+those microprocessors I mentioned",
"memory chips+the memory chips",
"memory banks+those memory banks",
"machineries+the machineries I mentioned",
"tools+those tools",
"drills+these drills",
"[hereian] sledgehammers+those sledgehammers",
"hydraulic lifters+these hyraulic thingies",
"mining equipment units+those mining tools",
"bulldozers+these bulldozers",
"tractors+those tractors",
"excavators+the excavator I mentioned",
"power winches+the power winches"
"boxes of alloys+these alloys",
"steel alloy bars+those steel bars",
"aluminum alloys+that aluminum",
"copper alloys+those copper bars",
"nickel plates+those nickel plates",
"copper bars+these copper bars",
"furs+those furs",
"fur coats+these furry coats",
"[hereian] [random]-fleeces+those fleeces",
"[famous] [hereian] furs+those furs",
"[hereian] coats+those coats",
"minerals+these minerals",
"[hereian] soft minerals+those minerals",
"siliceus ores+those ores",
"calcareous ores+those ores",
"[hereian] limestones+those limestones",
"granite plates+the granite plates I mentioned"
"gold bars+these gold bars",
"gold coins+these gold coins",
"[hereian] gold coins+those gold coins",
"minted gold coins+those gold coins",
"platinum bars+them platinum bars",
"platinum coins+those platinum coins",
"[hereian] platinum coins+those platium coins",
"gemstones+those gemstones",
"gems+aforementioned gems",
"rubys+those rubies",
"sapphires+aforementioned sapphires",
"diamonds+those diamonds",
"[hereian] gems+those gems",
"[hereian] diamonds+those diamonds"

On another thought, you will probably never see some of those fancy items because they do not end up in the top three list...

Yours, Christian