CascadeMissile.. NEU..

Zbond-Zbond · Post by **Zbond-Zbond** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:47 am

I've been trying to buy a CascadeMissile for various spacecraft.
Missiles and Bombs v0.5.oxp lists the missile and includes:

<dict>
<key>available_to_all</key>
<false/>
</dict>

It had previously been available, and I haven't modified the OXP in any way. I flew a saved Pallas to a TL12 and a TL13 looking for one, unsuccessfully, which is when I checked the OXP. I flew the Pallas to ORRAMAOR..TL15 with the same result.

I knew that I had a saved Caduceus with a couple of CascadeMissiles on board, so flew it to ZAONCE..TL12 and ONRIRA..TL14, firing off a CM on the way - it worked - but no replacement was available.
<key>available_to_all</key>
<false/>..................................probably means not available to all (players?) (ships?) but I have never had any trouble before with this OXP missile.

Similarly with the NEU.
The Pallas OXP shows
<string>EQ_ENERGY_BOMB</string>
<string>EQ_ENERGY_UNIT</string>
<string>EQ_NAVAL_ENERGY_UNIT</string> etc.,

which is the same as for other ships that can buy NEU, but I can't get one. I haven't tried with any other ships - saved models capable of it already have one.

I have already sent a bug report re. the DistressBeacon, which is similarly unavailable, and as this appears to be a bug with the MissilesAndBombs OXP, it may be that there is a problem with this OXP rather than with Oolite1.73.3.

Has anyone else encountered this, or is there a fixed release?

Lestradae · Post by **Lestradae** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:11 am

I suggest upgrading the Missiles & Bombs oxp to its latest version, V2.1:

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Missiles_and_Bombs

Hope that helps

L

Post by **Eric Walch** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:40 am

Zbond-Zbond wrote:
I've been trying to buy a CascadeMissile for various spacecraft.
Missiles and Bombs v0.5.oxp lists the missile and includes:

<dict>
<key>available_to_all</key>
<false/>
</dict>

It had previously been available, and I haven't modified the OXP in any way.

When true it means it is available to all, like the name says. When false it means it can only be bought by ships that contain an explicit definition for this equipment. I assume you need some special ships of Ramirez himself to buy this equipment. Don't set it to true but respect the authors choice to make it only available to special ships.

b.t.w. M&B 2.1 has the same definition so it looks very intentional.

You could open the shipYard.plist that contains your ship and add "EQ_RMB_CASCADE_MISSILE" to the equipment it can carry.

Zbond-Zbond · Post by **Zbond-Zbond** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:59 am

Lestradae wrote:
I suggest upgrading the Missiles & Bombs oxp to its latest version, V2.1

Isn't it amazing how the latest version of Missiles&Bombs is compatible with the latest version of Oolite?

The DistressBeacon was available: I bought one

However, there was still no cascade missile.
I changed
<key>available_to_all</key>
<false/>
to
<key>available_to_all</key>
<true/>
and bought cascade missile ok

cheers!

Svengali · Post by **Svengali** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:07 pm

A while ago we've had this discussion (see -> https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?t=5260). Maybe this makes it more clear.

Post by **Eric Walch** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:24 pm

Svengali wrote:
A while ago we've had this discussion (see -> https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?t=5260). Maybe this makes it more clear.

Yes, I already had forgotten it. Being available was a bug that was fixed in 1.73. I also looked through some of Ramirez his ships. None had it defined and it was also not awarded o trident down. So I think its is a real bug in M&B and should be defined true after all.

Cmdr Wyvern · Post by **Cmdr Wyvern** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:07 pm

Zbond-Zbond wrote:
However, there was still no cascade missile.
I changed[/color]
<key>available_to_all</key>
<false/>
to
<key>available_to_all</key>
<true/>
and bought cascade missile ok

cheers!

Now don't be surprised when pirates are lobbing those things at you.

Wiki pages · Post by **Thargoid** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:23 pm

Cmdr Wyvern wrote:
Now don't be surprised when pirates are lobbing those things at you.

Given it has the following role statement:

Code: Select all

         <key>roles</key>
         <string>EQ_RMB_CASCADE_MISSILE missile(0.001)</string>

you'd have to be amazingly unlucky (and very surprised) to have one thrown at you. One will appear for at "best" every 1000 missiles in the game, in reality even less often as it will be diluted down by all the other possible missiles installed with this and other OXPs.

Ramirez · Post by **Ramirez** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:40 pm

Thanks Eric - I thought that sounded familiar. Anyone with M&B installed can apply the fix that Cmdr Wyvern's set out - it wasn't intentional to restrict the missile to certain ships, as it's already a bit of a cheat anyway.

I think the special case weapons in Trident Down should be OK as they're either not used by the player or they're awarded via a script, but I'll check them out.

Cmdr Wyvern · Post by **Cmdr Wyvern** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:20 pm

It seems to me very illogical for a pirate to load a cascade torp. The cascade detonation is just as likely to kill your buddies as it is to take out your victim, and on top of that doesn't leave any loot behind.
If you're going to indiscriminately kill without any loot to collect, then you might as well get out of the piracy business, cause you're going to be a very poor pirate.

I have seen pirates load nuclear torpedoes, and for a pirate that's a very logical weapon. A nuke is a major threat to just about any large, slow freighter - it can kill or severely damage even a Kirin if it gets through those flak guns - and leaves all that juicy treasure behind.

Post by **Kaks** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:05 pm

Btw, about the NEU: it won't be available until you finish a certain top secret military mission. After that, it'll start showing up in certain systems only, and maybe already installed on some second hand ships.

Hope this helps!

Zbond-Zbond · Post by **Zbond-Zbond** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:35 pm

Eric Walch wrote:
Being available was a bug that was fixed in 1.73

I see - that explains why unavailable. All the saved ships that have CascadeMissiles were saved with 1.65.

Cmdr Wyvern wrote:
Now don't be surprised when pirates are lobbing those things at you

That will be most welcome. I similarly enjoy their egg-laying activities in the form of Q-mines. Any variation in the portfolio of pirate tactics adds charm to an, already exquisite, garden of universal delight - albeit one with a major black economy

Ramirez (in earlier thread) wrote:
follow a lot of the current discussion, and not knowing the inner-workings of the code all I can do is use trial and error to see what works best. I know progress is good

OK, so having read that earlier discussion (linked by EricWalch, above) I get the picture; my aim in messing around with .plist settings is just that sort of trial & error approach mentioned by Ramirez (in that earlier discussion).

Kaks wrote:
..NEU..

I completed that mission ages ago. For convenience - or occasional gloating

purposes - I have assembled a private shipyard containing numerous fully equipped vessels. Each spacecraft, one example of every downloaded OXP ship, includes the full complement of equipment available to players (to the extent that I've downloaded such eqptOXP's). In fact, as far as missiles are concerned, they don't have any: they have ExtraFuelTanks instead, but that is irrelevant - the point is that they all have a NEU (where possible) and the ship I whizz about the place in to look for new models is an early save, post-NEU mission, which ought to be able to aquire the NEU when traded in for the next ship. Oughtn't it?

As it happens, BenulobiweedPallas is the current new ship. I traded in a Kestrel with a NEU. When I couldn't find a NEU for new ship, I checked its config folder. It is able to take one, and I'd expected to get one at TL..14 or TL..15. Do I have to undertake mission again?

Experimenting with .plist settings is getting me insight into how OXP's are written. I don't actually want to interfere with originators' intentions. I note that some ships were intended to have CascadeMissile and that some others were not, and glean that setting "available_to_all" means available to all ships in the game (incl. npc). Does that mean that to specify all player - but not npc - ships as able to carry an item from Missiles&Bombs (or other OXP) it is necessary to write that item under "optional_equipment" in shipyard.plist?

At present there is only a list of native equipment there.

Additionally, if I alter

in shipyard.plist
<key>chance</key>
<real>0.7</real>

to

<key>chance</key>
<real>0.1</real>

will that restrict the appearance of the craft in space generally (as npc vessel) or only the chance to see one for sale at shipyard of appropriate TL?

Comments always welcome

Commander McLane · Post by **Commander McLane** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:21 am

Do you happen to have RS installed?

Up to its very last versions (I am not sure about the currenty available version, though), it broke several of the built-in-mission related equipment availabilities, including the NEU. With RS installed it isn't available after completing the mission.

Experimenting with .plist settings is getting me insight into how OXP's are written. I don't actually want to interfere with originators' intentions. I note that some ships were intended to have CascadeMissile and that some others were not, and glean that setting "available_to_all" means available to all ships in the game (incl. npc). Does that mean that to specify all player - but not npc - ships as able to carry an item from Missiles&Bombs (or other OXP) it is necessary to write that item under "optional_equipment" in shipyard.plist?

The available_to_all-key only refers to player ships. NPC equipment is handled elsewhere and completely differently. The available_to_all-key is the cheap alternative to putting an equipment into either the optional_equipment or the extras-array in all shipyard.plist entries of every possible player ship. Therefore, setting available_to_all to true is exactly what you want.

Additionally, if I alter

in shipyard.plist
<key>chance</key>
<real>0.7</real>

to

<key>chance</key>
<real>0.1</real>

will that restrict the appearance of the craft in space generally (as npc vessel) or only the chance to see one for sale at shipyard of appropriate TL?

Well, we are talking about shipyard.plist here, which obviously deals with the appearance of player ships in the shipyard only. Therefore nothing you change in shipyard.plist will be able to affect NPC craft in any way.

Specifically, the chance-key does two things:

(1) It determines the likelihood of the ship to appear in shipyards at all. So, if you set it to 0 the ship will be nowhere available. On the other hand, if you set it to 1, it will be (almost) everywhere available. Almost, because there are some other factors that go in the calculation of shipyards as well.

(2) It determines the likelihood of the ship to come pre-fitted with one or more items from the optional_equipment section. If you browse through a shipyard you will see that some ships are basic configuration, and some come with pre-fitted extra equipment (like for instance an NEU). The chance factor goes into the calculation of how many variants there will be, and how much of the extra equipment they get installed.

Note that all equipment installed via the chance factor from the optional_equipment list will also raise the ship's price accordingly. Therefore the extra NEU doesn't come for free, but will make the ship considerably more pricey. Different from that, all equipment listed in the extras section within the standard_equipment section is considered as standard, and is already included in the base price of the ship. So, if you want to design a ship and include lots of extras, you have to give it an accordingly high base price, or it will come over as too cheap in the game.

By the way: while studying plists certainly helps with understanding them, it is even more helpful to study their documentation as well, which is fully available in the Elite Wiki; here is a link to the Oolite_scripting category page: http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Catego ... _scripting

You will find a link to the documentation of shipyard.plist there.

Zbond-Zbond · Post by **Zbond-Zbond** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:43 pm

Commander McLane wrote:
Do you happen to have RS installed?

No, RS is not installed.

If for whatever reason the NEU can't be purchased, does that mean it won't appear as equipment on a ship for sale either? They cost ¢50,000 to buy at TL..14 or TL..15, after completing the mission, but seemed to elevate the price charged for any ship so equipped by oodles more!

Commander McLane · Post by **Commander McLane** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:18 pm

Yes, indeed, a pre-installed NEU will set you aback much more than the 50000₢ that it costs in the equipment department. That's the price you have to pay for getting classified equipment without being checked out before.

(I don't know the exact algorithm Oolite uses to calculate ship prices, and how optional equipment is factored in.)

And that you can't purchase it does not mean that you won't find a ship which has it already.

A quick question: What ship are you currently flying? Could it be that you are not offered a NEU anymore, because your current ship cannot fit it. Note that the NEU does not have the available_to_all-key set, therefore it has to be explicitely allowed in your current ship's shipyard.plist. Would be a good idea to check that out.

And if it isn't present as optional equipment in shipyard.plist, there are two possibilities:

(1) It has just been forgotten. In other words: it's a bug.

(2) Its designer has deliberately left it out, as a trade-off for the ship being good in something else. Probably he left a comment concerning this fact either in the readMe, the Wiki, or the respective thread here on the board. Find out.

Oolite Bulletins

CascadeMissile.. NEU..

CascadeMissile.. NEU..

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Re: CascadeMissile.. NEU..