New EliteWiki OXP table layout brainstorm spot

Chaky · Post by **Chaky** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:54 pm

Some of us share opinion that OXP table neds redoing, so I'm starting this thread to collect as much ideas, suggestions (and possibly solutions) for the new look.

Before you post anything, have in mind that Wiki tables' features are limited. My biggest regret is that there is no way to make the tables auto-sorting.

So, brainstorm away!

Rustybolts · Post by **Rustybolts** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:05 pm

It needs to be simple and easy to edit. I like how at the begining of the oxp page
http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/OXP it breaks oxps up into categories of oxp e.g hud, mission. Then at that relevant page it has a list of oxps in that category which just links to their own page containing downloads info on the oxp. I don't like the table at all too faffy.
You should maybe add a poll to see if others want it changing.

JensAyton · Post by **JensAyton** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:49 pm

I would like to once again remind everyone that the master list and by-category sublists at http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Catego ... sion_packs as long as each OXP has a page tagged with an appropriate template (such as “{{ship-OXP}}”). Yes, it’s less pretty, but manually-maintaned lists will always, inevitably, degrade over time.

Rustybolts · Post by **Rustybolts** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:26 pm

There are many different lists of oxps all over the wiki in varying degrees of completeness. The main page most people arrive at would be http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/OXP so either this page needs an overhaul or the one mentioned above needs to be accessed from the main menu located at http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Oolite_Main_Page *edit* from the heading oxps*edit*.
At the moment it seems a bit unclear which is the definitive list.

zevans · Post by **zevans** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:43 pm

Rustybolts wrote:
There are many different lists of oxps all over the wiki in varying degrees of completeness.

... and this is the main problem and what prompted me to say I'd have a hack at it if desired.

Call me Ralph Kimball, but as soon as there are two versions of anything, neither version will ever be correct, and I totally agree with ahruman that individual Wiki pages for OXPs should be tagged correctly in the first place. Furthermore I'd suggest that the One True Download Link should be in the individual Wiki page and NOT in the big tables or lists... and this itself brings down the size of the lists.

I say this because then OXP authors (or their tame Wiki volunteers) can maintain their own stuff without having to mess with a big page which would end up being edited by 50 people...

The "main page" (ie http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/OXP) is comprehensive but a bit heavyweight. As Rusty says the list by function is quite neat. Maybe we should have that AND a link to the by-category wiki-magic-maintained page there, and a link to a longer page with the massive table of versions and stuff in it.

Then we could look at magic ways of doing the table, even if it was an offline magic way that "someone" could run and upload the result every so often.

The main page most people arrive at would be http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/OXP

Absolutely, which is why I'd like it to be a bit less scary

so either this page needs an overhaul or the one mentioned above needs to be accessed from the main menu located at http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Oolite_Main_Page *edit* from the heading oxps*edit*.

Or all of the above, and we declare in big bold letters on the non-definitive pages that the auto-wiki-category version is DEFINITIVE and the handwritten pages are as up to date as possible but may sometimes lag slightly.

At the moment it seems a bit unclear which is the definitive list.

Agreed!

My two GalCr... feel free to flame me like the proverbial Trumble

Commander McLane · Post by **Commander McLane** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:55 am

Well, Ralph Kimball, actually I agree with you.

And I am already trying to follow the procedure. I have created a page for each of my OXPs, and only this page contains a download link. Examples:

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Anarchies_OXP
http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Cataclysm_OXP
http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Flying_Dutchman_OXP
http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Interstellar_help_OXP
http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Sell_equipment_OXP
http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Status_Quo_Q-bomb_OXP
http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Total_patrol_OXP

All of them are categorized in http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Catego ... sion_packs .

There are no download links whatsoever outside these pages. I usually don't even put download links here on the boards, but link to the wiki instead. Every other page, like my user page, or the OXP-table in http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/OXP is only ever linked to the inividual OXP pages. Through following this procedure I can be sure that only the latest version is ever available for download.

(I didn't follow this procedure from the very beginning, so indeed there can download links be found on the boards to outdated versions of some of my OXPs. The problem with posting a download link to the board is that while you can edit your own post later and remove or change the link, as soon as some other user has quoted your original download link in a reply to your post, you cannot edit his quotation, unless you're an admin.)

Wiki pages · Post by **Thargoid** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:56 am

Likewise for mine, although all the download links point to box.net anyway.

Selezen · Post by **Selezen** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:57 am

Ralph is King of Ideas.

Having multiple download points is a bit of an administrative headache, especially if the download link changes. A single point would be better imo.

Nice idea.

Post by **Micha** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:54 am

How flexible is this tagging system in the Wiki?

What I would ideally like to see is an autogenerated alphabetised table containing at a minimum:
OXP Name, Latest OXP Version, Direct Download Link (ideal) or link to Wiki page

This is because I sometimes don't have time for Oolite for extended periods at a time and then when I come back I spend 2 days (well, not quite), checking for updated OXPs. So having a single place to check all OXPs quickly would be Very Nice(tm).

Wiki pages · Post by **Thargoid** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:10 am

The spanner in the works will be the version number.

At the moment the tags basically work by auto-generating a table of all wiki pages (usually OXP pages, but not always unfortunately) that have a given tag (oolite-OXP meta-list, demo-OXP, equipment-OXP, mission-OXP, ship-OXP, station-OXP, weapon-OXP and unclassified). Pages can have multiple tags, but I think you can only compile a table for one at a time.

As the link is to the wiki page which features that tag, so to do version as well basically every time an OXP was version-up'd it would have to have a new wiki page (not a nice option obviously).

For me the tags automate the sub-tables that are below the current main OXP table, but not really the main table itself. That I think would need some code re-working or something different in how its' done to extend the functionality.

ovvldc · Post by **ovvldc** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:02 pm

You can make an index by using [[category]] labels, but not a table with more than the title.

Best wishes,
Oscar

JensAyton · Post by **JensAyton** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:09 pm

ovvldc wrote:
You can make an index by using [[category]] labels, but not a table with more than the title.

Just to be clear, this is what the {{foo-OXP}} templates do.

lfnfan · Post by **lfnfan** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:47 pm

category - oolite expansion packs - "this page has been accessed 6,600 times"

index - OXP - "this page has been accessed 117,000 times"

that should suggest where the focus of effort should go, I would say.

JensAyton · Post by **JensAyton** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:26 pm

lfnfan wrote:
category - oolite expansion packs - "this page has been accessed 6,600 times"

index - OXP - "this page has been accessed 117,000 times"

that should suggest where the focus of effort should go, I would say.

Sorry, but that makes no sense. The sensible thing to do is set up something that works well, then guide people towards it. People currently use the OXP page because that’s what they know about. If the list wasn’t there and a link to an index was, they’d use that.

lfnfan · Post by **lfnfan** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:35 am

are you assuming that visitors don't know about the index, which is why it is less used? i am assuming that visitors know about both the index and the table, and choose to use the table from preference. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!

I think there is a need for an index and a table. The former for someone who just wants to get to an OXP quickly. The latter for someone browsing for a new OXP, but not sure what.

Index
So the http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Catego ... sion_packs should stay as is, and all existing OXP wiki pages should have the right tags (not sure how this captures OXPs which don't have a wiki page?).

Browsing
In summary, the wiki structure i would suggest is: main OXP page > OXP by type (table pages) > individual OXP page.

In a bit more detail:
Main OXP page
http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/OXP page, I would suggest keeping sections 1, 2, 5, 6, and 7 in the same page as a 'general wiki on OXPs', and to have a number of links from there to eight or nine new pages, one for each category of OXP (note that the categories are different here http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Catego ... sion_packs and here http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/OXP page).

OXP by type (table pages)
In each of these eight or nine new pages I would suggest that there is a table like the current 'big OXP table' except made up of just one type of OXP. There should be links to individual wiki pages. Column headings: OXP Name, Latest OXP Version, Link to Wiki page, Brief description.

Individual OXP page
user defined, as long as it carries the necessary fields & tags (OXP type, version number, description text). If the OXP creator doesn't put up a wiki page with the necessary fields, the related table will have blanks in it.

I have no clue about wiki coding tables, but it can't be beyond impossible to have all the summary tables built up from fields and tags in the individual OXP pages... can it?