RFC: Fancy classics

[Thargoid]

Looks like we found where all that ghastly 70's textured wallpaper ended up

Wood-chip & pebble-dashed Coriolis anyone?

[ovvldc]

I am not that fond of the new coriolis. I think these are best left to other OXPs for now - we have plenty of pretty station replacements. Some (as you said) with asteroids.

I like the thargon. As for the other options, I suggest doing a neolite OXP with all of the classic ships, and then making separate OXPs with gunslingers, galcops, frontiersmen, etc. I'd say put them on the wiki ASAP and give the OXPs separate pages.

As for requests, I'd like to see the NewShips, Aegidian's specials, and the Murgh and Aegidian's X-ships converted and sexed up. That way all of the really early OXPs (and most of the ships with snake names) are covered.

I wonder why you need pilot models. I thought ejecting people were in an escape pod. You'd have to get really close to see then peer out of the window.

There is already a cargo pods OXP out there, and it is being actively developed, so no need to work on that. I have also seen twisted and hot metal fragments on the board, and someone seems to be working on that too.

I suggest not doing the missiles if you need the time. There are missile OXPs out there, and they add variety. Bottom line is that you do not see much of a missile anyway.

Best wishes,
Oscar

[Simon B]

I am not that fond of the new coriolis. I think these are best left to other OXPs for now - we have plenty of pretty station replacements. Some (as you said) with asteroids.

The stations need a minimal workover, just to give them some texture to go with the ships.

Perhaps something more imposing a-la griffs coriolis - but less involved?

The bumpy effect can be reduced, and edges applied to contain things somewhat. I was just showing what can be done - I did not change the model at all - or the skins. I just added a random-squares normalmap with some very plain specular.

I like the thargon.

It's simple ain't it?

As for the other options, I suggest doing a neolite OXP with all of the classic ships, and then making separate OXPs with gunslingers, galcops, frontiersmen, etc. I'd say put them on the wiki ASAP and give the OXPs separate pages.

That's the idea.

I have actually just finished the normalmapping for neolite.oxp tonight.
Now I just need to add the final models and it's ready for v1.0 release!

As for requests, I'd like to see the NewShips, Aegidian's specials, and the Murgh and Aegidian's X-ships converted and sexed up. That way all of the really early OXPs (and most of the ships with snake names) are covered.

Coo - I was going to do the rest og aegideans ships next, then new-ships. Glad to see we're on the same wavelength.

I also figured the ships which appear in Random Hits as a guide. I've got most of them ... there's cobra varients and so on.

I plan to put aegidean's ships in the companion oxp.

I wonder why you need pilot models. I thought ejecting people were in an escape pod. You'd have to get really close to see then peer out of the window.

not "need" ... "want". Fighters currently do not have an escape pod ... it adds to the "gunslinger" feel to have a pilot with a backpack eject. Have you seen the EVA pics?

There is already a cargo pods OXP out there, and it is being actively developed, so no need to work on that.

A standard neolite cargopod has been requested. Though, Aegidean has a barrel - I wanted something to do justice to the pentagonal prism.

I have also seen twisted and hot metal fragments on the board, and someone seems to be working on that too.

Cool - where?

The one I have is intended to replace the rectangle we have right now for the default. The other oxps will add in fine. That said - if any of the other designs fits in, I can just add it (license notwithstanding).

I suggest not doing the missiles if you need the time. There are missile OXPs out there, and they add variety. Bottom line is that you do not see much of a missile anyway.

This is correct - it would mostly be for the preview ;)

Hmmm... you didn't mention bouys...

Still ... major priority is to get the companion oxp switched to openstep.
I could translate the shader sections to xml I suppose - but isn't that supposed to be getting depreciated sometime?

[Disembodied]

There is already a cargo pods OXP out there, and it is being actively developed, so no need to work on that.

A standard neolite cargopod has been requested. Though, Aegidean has a barrel - I wanted something to do justice to the pentagonal prism.

I have also seen twisted and hot metal fragments on the board, and someone seems to be working on that too.

Cool - where?

The one I have is intended to replace the rectangle we have right now for the default. The other oxps will add in fine. That said - if any of the other designs fits in, I can just add it (license notwithstanding).

Griff's been toying with burning wreckage (he'll have his eye out if he's not careful). The thread's here.

Not sure about greebling the stations. It's an approach that works on ships but I think the stations need something else. Because they're supposed to be such big structures I think any detailing needs to be big, too, and the semirandom all-over approach that works well on ships seems out of place on a station. A better approach might be just to dot rows of glowing windows around the place. Tiny little windows, to give the impression of scale.

[another_commander]

If done properly, greebling can work on stations too:
https://developer.berlios.de/dbimage.php?id=4351

I think the trick here is to not make it look too much like random greebling.

[ovvldc]

The stations need a minimal workover, just to give them some texture to go with the ships.

I'd say just incorporate some station from one of the existing OXPs, such as the Gritty Coriolis, or the original for the Griff's Burning Coriolis. Otherwise I feel it is best to go for a flat metal (specular?) effect. Putting normal maps and such on the larger surfaces of these stations quickly makes them look crumpled or pockmarked.

I also figured the ships which appear in Random Hits as a guide. I've got most of them ... there's cobra varients and so on.

Sounds good. Seems like the LittleBear is on board with this, so nothing should go wrong if you two keep in touch...

I wonder why you need pilot models.

not "need" ... "want". Fighters currently do not have an escape pod ... it adds to the "gunslinger" feel to have a pilot with a backpack eject. Have you seen the EVA pics?

Yes. Least appealing part of space travel.

I have also seen twisted and hot metal fragments on the board, and someone seems to be working on that too.

Cool - where?

There's discussion in the Shader's Outpost thread on heat effects. Then Griff (our shader pioneer) made some junk pieces for a flaming wreckage thread

Hmmm... you didn't mention bouys...

Didn't think about them. I suggest coordinating with the authors of the Buoy repair OXP on that one. Would not want breakage..

Still ... major priority is to get the companion oxp switched to openstep.
I could translate the shader sections to xml I suppose - but isn't that supposed to be getting depreciated sometime?

This is more of a question for the coders here...

Best wishes,
Oscar

[Disembodied]

I think you're right, a_c. Also the big, non-random external structures (some of which are big enough to have their own details on them) help with the sense of scale.

[Diziet Sma]

I wonder why you need pilot models. I thought ejecting people were in an escape pod. You'd have to get really close to see then peer out of the window.

not "need" ... "want". Fighters currently do not have an escape pod ... it adds to the "gunslinger" feel to have a pilot with a backpack eject. Have you seen the EVA pics?

Maybe some pilots with no escape pod would punch out wearing just a RemLok survival mask, like the one Alex Ryder uses in 'The Dark Wheel.'

I'm lovin' the Neolite betas, btw.. Though I notice that since I installed them sometimes my see-through HUD partially brightens, making it hard to see through. It appears to be reflected light from planets, as it usually happens when I rotate towards a planet, and fades as I turn away... I'm flying a standard Cobra Mk.III with a slightly customised FighterHUD.oxp (I added the circular crosshairs from DeepspaceHUD) It's not the entire FighterHUD that gets obscured however, just the area I estimate would be occupied by the standard HUD, were it installed.

[another_commander]

Still ... major priority is to get the companion oxp switched to openstep.
I could translate the shader sections to xml I suppose - but isn't that supposed to be getting depreciated sometime?

This is more of a question for the coders here...

I missed that earlier. I don't think that the XML plist format will get deprecated. This would mean that we give up on compatibility with older OXPs and besides, XML plist parsing is an integral part of NeXTStep/GNUstep. It's just that the openstep format is more readable for our intents and purposes. Note that this is different to the homebrew plist parser, which is scheduled for deprecation sometime in the future (no idea when, though).

[Simon B]

Is it me or do the faces now look concave? (as well as ridged)

Seems to be an artifact of the shaders - the lighting treats each triangle to be on a slightly different angle.

The effect is only apparent for some angles - the python's cargo-bay doors got a big bright s-shape too.

[Simon B]

If done properly, greebling can work on stations too:
https://developer.berlios.de/dbimage.php?id=4351

I think the trick here is to not make it look too much like random greebling.

I'm having a play with how the current models are textured - I may be able to do something like that without actually changing the model or the mapping.

It should be possible to get something I can use on all the stations ... though, it's not getting picked up for the dodo or the isoc, and there's nothing in the logs.

[DaddyHoggy]

@Simon B - with regards to your escaping pilots - I'm put in mind of Spock's EVA suit in TMP (couldn't find a piccie!)

[Micha]

First off: Excellent work! The models look great.

Personally I'm still not 100% sure I want to lose the nostalgic feel of the original models, but yours certainly make a big effort to maintain them. I'll make up my mind with which set I want to play permanently one of these days - but definitely impressive and worth the effort!


Since you complained that nobody had mentioned buoys, here are my 2 Cr worth:

I'd like to see a standard buoy which could easily contain or have added the Your-Ad-Here ads.

I personally really dislike the huge billboards (so I've a custom version of YAH which has the pi-42 stations and ads, but no buoy-replacement).

However, I like the -idea- of an advertising buoy, just not sure what the best approach would be. Also, it should look good both with an Ad and without an Ad - some systems may have a policy against capitalism.

Perhaps a non-tumbling cylinder which can optionally have Ads rotating around it with nav-flashers on top and bottom? Whatever the replacement buoy would be, it should be roughly the same size as the current buoy for several reasons:

1. When jumping into a system or the system populator needs to be modified to ensure incoming ships are far-enough away from the W-buoy to prevent collision (some YAH-pilots have complained of this in the past, unsure if it's still an issue)
2. Buoy-repair compatibility - buoys need to be launchable and dockable at a station.

[Kaks]

1. When jumping into a system or the system populator needs to be modified to ensure incoming ships are far-enough away from the W-buoy to prevent collision (some YAH-pilots have complained of this in the past, unsure if it's still an issue)

Still an issue, afaik!

[Screet]

1. When jumping into a system or the system populator needs to be modified to ensure incoming ships are far-enough away from the W-buoy to prevent collision (some YAH-pilots have complained of this in the past, unsure if it's still an issue)

Still an issue, afaik!

Confirmed. I had many crashes since I installed YAH...and once a very strange thing, similar but obviously not from the AD: something hit my ship during witchspace, shields and almost all energy gone. Didn't have damage logging on at that time, wish I know what it was...

Screet