Docking

[MKG]

The thing which always bugged me most about Elite was its insistence that I had to learn to dock before I could get a docking computer. I feel certain that this simple little foible was something which made a lot of potential Eliteers down tools and buy a different game. If I remember correctly, in the original game you not only had to learn to dock but then had to fly to a high-tech station which had an even smaller docking port and then try to get in there - all to get an automatic bit of kit. Now, of course, Oolite doesn't have that feature.

My first reaction on trying Oolite for the first time was (having forgotten all about manual docking) "Oh no - that's not still in there" and then I promptly edited the save file. Cheating? Or a common practice?

It may be just me, but I think that manual docking is a pain in the backside which added (and still adds) nothing to the game experience apart from sheer frustration.

So tell me (before I begin any wasted work on the Beginners OXP which will award a docking computer on acceptance of a series of short missions), what does anyone else think?

[Eric Walch]

The thing which always bugged me most about Elite was its insistence that I had to learn to dock before I could get a docking computer.

Thargoid wrote traffic_control.oxp for this purpose. It is very useful when beginning. You still have to do the docking manually but now you get approach advises making lining up easier.
Remember, most ships have a view position a little above the ships centre. So when lining up you sometimes can get the impression you are of while your ship is actually lined up perfectly.

[pagroove]

The thing which always bugged me most about Elite was its insistence that I had to learn to dock before I could get a docking computer. I feel certain that this simple little foible was something which made a lot of potential Eliteers down tools and buy a different game. If I remember correctly, in the original game you not only had to learn to dock but then had to fly to a high-tech station which had an even smaller docking port and then try to get in there - all to get an automatic bit of kit. Now, of course, Oolite doesn't have that feature.

My first reaction on trying Oolite for the first time was (having forgotten all about manual docking) "Oh no - that's not still in there" and then I promptly edited the save file. Cheating? Or a common practice?

It may be just me, but I think that manual docking is a pain in the backside which added (and still adds) nothing to the game experience apart from sheer frustration.

So tell me (before I begin any wasted work on the Beginners OXP which will award a docking computer on acceptance of a series of short missions), what does anyone else think?

Sorry but I have no problems with manual docking. Also use the yaw controls and manage your speed.

[DaddyHoggy]

I enjoy manual docking and having recently started again with a new Cmdr Jameson it didn't seem to be a problem - in my day on the C64 we didn't have a nav buoy to aim at...

I only bought a docking computer in the end so I could do Shift+d if I was short of time and needed to get to a position where I could save the game.

[Disembodied]

The original game did give players a big first step to overcome with manual docking. It was different in them days, o'course, when we had to make our own entertainment, not like the yoof of today, etc. etc. So I think it's a good idea to provide a small stepladder for those that want it. There are other options available, such as downloading the Rusties pack and selling the new Cobra III for a clunker and a docking computer, but that's not always a workable option straight off the bat at Lave. Plus, a few simple missions sounds like a nice way to ease new players into the game, especially if there's a little bit of advice hidden inside the mission too.

[Lestradae]

@MKG:

There are other options available, such as downloading the Rusties pack and selling the new Cobra III for a clunker and a docking computer, but that's not always a workable option straight off the bat at Lave.

This option also exists with the <shameless self-pimping> Realistic Shipyards oxp downloadable via my signature. There are diverse ships in there that are worse off than the Cobra Mk III but you have money and can buy a docking computer and a bit of stuff immediately - often, at least. Perhaps for the next version I will even offer alternate Jameson's - just savegames from sold ships/bought equipment that I put in with the package. </shameless self-pimping>

Those two, I think, are your only two non-cheat options to get a DC immediately atm.

[JameSpal]

Docking is much easier in Oolite than it was in Elite.

Modern joysticks with analog sticks make matching rotation much easier as you don't have to tap-tap-tap-tap the stick at a certain pace to match rotation, you can just move the stick to where it matches and hold it there for the entire final approach.

Yaw can be a big help in getting alignment just right in the last few seconds.

The lights on the back of the docking bay provide an alignment reference once you get past the point where you can no longer see the edges of the docking slit. They also provide a reference of how well you are lined up before you get that close.

Some stations don't rotate - Transhab, Con-Stores, Seedy Bars come to mind.

Nav Beacons are there a lot of the time - just fly to that, rotate to see the station, and you are usually lined up close enough to make it in.

I'm fairly sure that the AI will not release a docked craft from the station when you are are on final approach - at least I've not encountered ships coming out and ramming into my ship just before I dock, like happened to me frequently in C64 Elite.

I had a lot of trouble with manual docking in C64 Elite. DC was always my first upgrade. Once I did a few manual dockings in Oolite, I got the hang of it all and have a much higher success rate than I ever had in Elite. I only have a DC on my ship now because it was on it when I bought it and I occassionally use it for the shift-D instant dock when I am getting impatient on my milk-runs.

[Killer Wolf]

is it just me, or is this another symptom of the whole "i can't be ar$ed to put in some effort and learn something, i just want a cheat to do it for me" games culture? no one seems to want to put in the time to LEARN a game, to learn how to drive and shoot in war games, or cast spells or whatever. they all want to cheat results and level-ups and attributes or buy them off ebay etc etc.
where's the self-satisfaction? where's the sense of achievement? i remember umpteen times; load up, launch, hyperspace, maybe fight a bit, limp to a station, and stuff the docking. bang, press space, start again. but that time i then made it through intact and docked w/ cargo, bounty and a couple of kills under my belt....wouldn't've missed that air-punch moment for the world.

[Gimi]

Docking is much easier in Oolite than it was in Elite.
I had a lot of trouble with manual docking in C64 Elite. DC was always my first upgrade.

Agree, it is a little too easy in Oolite (if you are a really die hard elite fan). When I started playing on my C64 I struggled no end with docking, but when I finally came to the point where I had enough money to buy one I ended up buying a cargo bay extension and then a fuel scoop and then a beam laser before I eventually bought a DC. By that time I had docking pretty much perfected, and I have followed the same pattern on Elite PC, Elite Plus, Elite TNK and Oolite.

I really think that hard docking is a part of the game, but I also acknowledge that it probably is a turn off for players new to both Oolite and Elite. It can kill motivation, which is not good.

[ClymAngus]

Yeah you get that approch slightly off angle and it all gets a little bit early 90's, LSD holidays in Wales, unsteady freddy, mixed drink surprise.

So get your line up perfect, or prepare for flash backs. I've walked away from oolite more than once high as a **** because of that endlessly spinning slot.

Yay! Freebee! Time to put some early M.O.S. on.

[MKG]

Thanks all - a fair old mixture of responses there. I seem to see a pattern - those who love docking (I'll call those the masochists), those who despise docking, those who can dock easily and have forgotten what names they called the computer when they were learning, and then there's Killer Wolf

Disembodied put what I was thinking of in a nutshell. I think there's room for a beginner's OXP to set the mood and get people into the game quickly (or not - OXPs aren't mandatory) so that they can enjoy the real experience (which, as far as I'm concerned, is not enhanced by tedious repetition of docking manoeuvres) and get some missions under their belts - possibly even a Rookie Licence. Any chance of L-plates on ships?

And I have a few ideas. Back to the cogitation chamber, then.

Mike

[Thargoid]

As already mentioned I wrote Traffic Control for fairly much this purpose, to try and ease newer players (or older players who've got too reliant on docking computers) into the art of docking.

As to a newbie OXP, I'm currently working on something along those lines, which will give target practice, docking practice and also navigation and ship handling tests.

[tomsk]

Docking skill are always needed. The DC can be damaged when under fire.
I use the DC (shift-D) at stations and sometimes I'll use the DC when docking with other vessels. I manually dock with anything that's stationary (rock hermit, con store etc) because the DC is too slow.

[Azathoth]

Too slow?? The computer docking is instantaneous. I guess you mean the autodoc with “C”??

[MKG]

As already mentioned I wrote Traffic Control for fairly much this purpose, to try and ease newer players (or older players who've got too reliant on docking computers) into the art of docking.

As to a newbie OXP, I'm currently working on something along those lines, which will give target practice, docking practice and also navigation and ship handling tests.

Good stuff, then. So much for my "original" idea A plea, though - when you're doing the docking practice, please bear in mind that some old sticks in the mud like me don't have joysticks (or a mouse that will work in Oolite).

Look forward to seeing it, Thargoid.