Any plans on making a oolite: frontier version?

Selezen · Post by **Selezen** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:36 am

Fronter was a good idea done badly. It has SOOO much potential, and Gametek spoiled it all by rushing the release on both FE2 and FFE.

Landing on planets: cool.
Deploying your own mining equipment: cool
Missions and bbs systems: cool
Hyperspace tracking: cool
Buying different ships: cool

However...

Newtonian flight: baaad
Trying to fly without an autopilot: bad (ping-pong flight)
Combat: bad
Amount of time spent having a game in relation to pissing about with flight mechanics: not enough...

It did have its good points, but was it good? I'm not sure. Elite was a classic game because it was easy to pick up and play. Have a few runs, save the game then go for tea. Frontier tries to be a simulation which reduces the ability to pick up and play, especially when a flight from hyperspace to planet/station takes over an hour thanks to the twenty long, drawn out battles that happen on the way...

B5 IFH is darned good if you're a fan of B5 (which I am) but it will suffer in the same way Frontier does since it does do newtonian physics. It does, however, handle that better than Frontier did. It's also far more atmospheric...

There will always be the Elite/Frontier fan base schism. Potaytoes, potahtoes and all that. My argument: Frontier was its own game in its own universe and Braben chucked in the Elite ships and planets as an afterthought.

Post by **Cmdr James** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:51 am

There were lots of other great things, like a 3d universe the charts were not completely flat), different types of engines, differing ranges, differing waste products, animals that turned to meat if you took them into a vacuum unprotected. A more coherant legal system.

It had everything needed to be a great game, but it just wasnt. It was too clunky, had too many bugs (I often ended up with a negative number of passengers), and generally lacked fun.

I think the key things that would have improved it would be:
* Bugfixes.
* No use of fuel for intra-system travel -- was annoying carrying extra fuel because I didnt know how much was needed to fly about.
* Slightly less real physics, to make combat less comical. Could still have momentum and gravity, but perhaps more damped, and toned down.
* Less space occupied by basic equipment (autorefueler was 1t, could have been zero, for example)
* the really big binary star systems should probably be smaller, as although realistic, they were, in my opinion, unvisitable.

ClymAngus · Post by **ClymAngus** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:17 pm

Cmdr James wrote:
There were lots of other great things, like a 3d universe the charts were not completely flat), different types of engines, differing ranges, differing waste products, animals that turned to meat if you took them into a vacuum unprotected. A more coherant legal system.

It had everything needed to be a great game, but it just wasnt. It was too clunky, had too many bugs (I often ended up with a negative number of passengers), and generally lacked fun.

I think the key things that would have improved it would be:
* Bugfixes.
* No use of fuel for intra-system travel -- was annoying carrying extra fuel because I didnt know how much was needed to fly about.
* Slightly less real physics, to make combat less comical. Could still have momentum and gravity, but perhaps more damped, and toned down.
* Less space occupied by basic equipment (autorefueler was 1t, could have been zero, for example)
* the really big binary star systems should probably be smaller, as although realistic, they were, in my opinion, unvisitable.

This are mostly core programming alterations thought aren't they?

Post by **Cmdr James** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:57 pm

Well, there is no OXP system for frontier, so I guess everything would be "core programming".

If you mean that they couldnt be added to oolite with OXPs (not sure if you do mean that?) then the answer is different -- I dont think oolite should try to be Frontier.

Edit: but a different project (not oolite based), creating a game "like Frontier" but fixed, would be truly fantastic. I think.

Star Gazer · Post by **Star Gazer** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:11 pm

Oolite has already accommodated missions and the beginnings of bbs., also, you can buy many different ships, and follow ships through their hyperspace windows.

The only real thing missing is the 'landing on planets', which, as I understand it, would require a major rework to the game engine...

...if that were ever undertaken, then the 'Deploying your own mining equipment' would be a relatively simple addition, and griff has already created the mining gear.

However that is a very big 'if', so don't hold your breath!

Lestradae · Post by **Lestradae** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:38 pm

Star Gazer wrote:
The only real thing missing is the 'landing on planets', which, as I understand it, would require a major rework to the game engine...

It's not missing - Star Gazer, kindly have a look here:

https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?t=5357

... "landing on planets" is actually in already

BTW, agree with everything you said on the ships/objects size and frontier analogies as well.

Cheers

L

EDIT: Planetary Mining Equipment would be awesome.

Post by **Cmdr James** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:39 pm

One of the key problems with landing on planets (which I believe is now possible with the planetfall oxp) is that the planets dont really have a good close-up feel. There arent any cities, buildings, trees, plants or anything else. So as you get up close, for a flight through a city, all you get is a big gree continent getting bigger and bigger.

Captain Hesperus · Post by **Captain Hesperus** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:05 pm

Cmdr James wrote:
One of the key problems with landing on planets (which I believe is now possible with the planetfall oxp) is that the planets dont really have a good close-up feel. There arent any cities, buildings, trees, plants or anything else. So as you get up close, for a flight through a city, all you get is a big gree continent getting bigger and bigger.

You mean like this.

Captain Hesperus

Website · Post by **DaddyHoggy** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:24 pm

I noticed it actually travelled, briefly, below the ground and given that it was still doing +100km/h straight down went it "impacted on the surface" I'm not surprised!

ClymAngus · Post by **ClymAngus** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:39 pm

Captain Hesperus wrote:
Cmdr James wrote:
One of the key problems with landing on planets (which I believe is now possible with the planetfall oxp) is that the planets dont really have a good close-up feel. There arent any cities, buildings, trees, plants or anything else. So as you get up close, for a flight through a city, all you get is a big gree continent getting bigger and bigger.
You mean like this.

Captain Hesperus

Well I was thinking something more like this:

but that might be pushing things a little.

Captain Hesperus · Post by **Captain Hesperus** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:56 pm

ClymAngus wrote:

Well I was thinking something more like this:

But that would be an ignominous ending. To have fought your way across the system only to be sideswiped into a starscraper by a sub-orbital pantechnicon.....

Captain Hesperus

Website · Post by **DaddyHoggy** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:56 pm

Or having some nutty Jedi whizzing past you minus his ship...

ClymAngus · Post by **ClymAngus** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:19 pm

DaddyHoggy wrote:
Or having some nutty Jedi whizzing past you minus his ship...

"You have scooped Anakin Skywalker, you may want to eject him before he gets scared. He has a habit of going apesh*t when under pressure".

As Yoda said "Apesh*t is the path to the dark side. Apesh*t leads to broken furniture. broken furnature leads to Ikea. Ikea leads to suffering. I sense much apesh*t in you"

Website · Post by **DaddyHoggy** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:12 am

Frame · Post by **Frame** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:02 am

ClymAngus wrote:
DaddyHoggy wrote:
Or having some nutty Jedi whizzing past you minus his ship...
"You have scooped Anakin Skywalker, you may want to eject him before he gets scared. He has a habit of going apesh*t when under pressure".

As Yoda said "Apesh*t is the path to the dark side. Apesh*t leads to broken furniture. broken furnature leads to Ikea. Ikea leads to suffering. I sense much apesh*t in you"

sorry lads, i think you have to be 30 or something to get this...