more competition in the banking sector

Tivva · Post by **Tivva** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:59 pm

I like this thread, some very good ideas being suggested.
Always thought the BM were limited to early commanders with the fixed loan of 20,000cr.
A more flexible option would sometimes be preferred.
Now buying stations

I like this.
I wish i could write oxp's.

Tivva

JohnnyBoy · Post by **JohnnyBoy** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:14 pm

Or buying a stake in a station.

Then you'd have a vested interest in protecting the traders who come to the station to buy and sell, because you're taking a share of that station's profits.

Website · Post by **DaddyHoggy** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:38 pm

Just imagine if you bought a station and then it ended up looking like this:

or the Thargoids targetted the banking stations to disrupt the economy of multiple systems in one go.

Post by **Disembodied** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:32 pm

In a mercantile setup like Oolite, it would make sense to be able to invest in large-scale shipping runs, for a percentage return on the profits. Players could purchase a piece of a big Anaconda shipment, and get paid off if the shipment goes through. The more hazardous the journey, the greater chance of losing your stake, but the potential returns should be higher.

A shipment running in to a Corporate State or a Democracy should be a good way of making, say, a 1% or 2% return; a shipment to an Anarchy could net you, what? 15%? Assuming it gets through, of course. Maybe the player could opt to escort their own shipment: fly on ahead and sweep out as many pirates as possible, fly back again to check on the Annie's health?

Website · Post by **DaddyHoggy** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:33 pm

The Ooyds family of Teorge, one of the two financial backbones of this planet's modest GPP (Gross Planetary Product) has branched out into the Galactic-wide Financial Market - launching the Ooniversal Xeno-Prudential in response to the demands of the wealthier and more discerning Commander.

They're investing heavily in Tetra-screen advertising and are hoping to increase their market share (to around 6% within the next Standard Galactic Year) of the estimated 178 Trillion Credits currently held in The Galactic Cooperatives Standard 0% Interest Trader Accounts.

Lestradae · Post by **Lestradae** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:58 pm

Hmm ...

There's Commies, Dictators, and Anarchies expansions ...

... Ramirez is working on a Feudals, and it has been suggested, there could be a Democracy expansion ...

... so why not make this whole banking / immobilia idea into a Corporate oxp?

Brainstorming L

Commander McLane · Post by **Commander McLane** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:10 am

Hi everybody!

Some very good suggestions, and a brand name!

What more could I possibly wish for? Thanks to all of you!

Let's see, what do we have now:

Loans like described above.
Fixed deposits as described above. I think I drop the savings account. I like the idea that the money you are putting in the bank isn't available for you anymore until the fixed period has expired; and it will be a hassle to get it back earlier.
Bank shares as described above.
Investment in shipping runs. Sounds like a good start for some non-financial activity in this OXP. You invest in a share in some bulk-freighter's cargo. The freighter starts from your current system and travels to an adjacent system. In order to secure your investment you may chose to accompany it and fight off the attacking pirates. Or you leave it alone, which will result in a certain probability of the shipment being lost to piracy.
Buying shares in non-bank assets, e.g. stations. Will have to think about that. Of course the station could end up like in DH's screenshot (I can do that for you , see Cataclysm), which will leave you with two options: (1) the station has to be dumped, your investment is lost, you only get the scrap metal value back; or (2) you have to inject more capital for the repairs, if you can't, see number 1.
Clean status condition: Of course the bank would check out its customer before giving him a loan. A clean status would be required. And perhaps a penalty if he turns offender while the loan is running?
Giving the bank access to your credits: Yes, that's what I was thinking about. If you fail to return to one of the bank branches in order to repay your loan, they will get you at the main stations as well. As soon as you've sold your cargo and have a certain amount of cash they will seize it (and impose a fine, of course). Replacing your ship with an Adder is not possible, unfortunately. Would be the natural thing to do as a security for your loan, but Oolite doesn't allow for it.
Backed up by law: Yes, definitely. Foul loans are reported to the authorities, and will result in a bounty on your head.
Making it a Corporates.oxp: Perhaps eventually. For reasons of keeping the workload controllable I will concentrate on the banking business for now, though. Which doesn't mean that somebody else couldn't add other elements to corporate systems. (Doesn't localhero already give flavour to corporate systems?)

@ LittleBear: I hope I don't get in your way of re-working the Black Monks? Don't know what ideas you had, and whether the Black Monks also want to broaden their business and go into savings and investments? (Although I think their religion would probably prohibit them to return the deposits/investements to their customers in the end?

) But in a market economy competition is good anyway, isn't it?

JohnnyBoy · Post by **JohnnyBoy** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:42 pm

Disembodied wrote:
In a mercantile setup like Oolite, it would make sense to be able to invest in large-scale shipping runs, for a percentage return on the profits. Players could purchase a piece of a big Anaconda shipment, and get paid off if the shipment goes through. The more hazardous the journey, the greater chance of losing your stake, but the potential returns should be higher.

A shipment running in to a Corporate State or a Democracy should be a good way of making, say, a 1% or 2% return; a shipment to an Anarchy could net you, what? 15%? Assuming it gets through, of course. Maybe the player could opt to escort their own shipment: fly on ahead and sweep out as many pirates as possible, fly back again to check on the Annie's health?

I like these ideas very much, but I think that swapping a life of pirate hunting for a life of sitting in a spacebar earning money from nothing but passive income might reduce the appeal of the game...

ovvldc · Post by **ovvldc** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:31 pm

JohnnyBoy wrote:
I like these ideas very much, but I think that swapping a life of pirate hunting for a life of sitting in a spacebar earning money from nothing but passive income might reduce the appeal of the game...

Actually, pirate hunting can be pretty expensive. Missiles are not cheap, and repairs cost a fortune..

-Oz

Cmdr Wyvern · Post by **Cmdr Wyvern** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:50 pm

ovvldc wrote:
JohnnyBoy wrote:
I like these ideas very much, but I think that swapping a life of pirate hunting for a life of sitting in a spacebar earning money from nothing but passive income might reduce the appeal of the game...
Actually, pirate hunting can be pretty expensive. Missiles are not cheap, and repairs cost a fortune..

-Oz

Indeed.
It would help if the mining and freight companies - I'm looking at you especially, Cygnus Hauling, you tightwad bastards! - would be a little more generous with posted bounties. It's almost enough to make a mercenary consider a little piracy of his own when the Vipers aren't around.

Post by **Cmdr James** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:52 pm

JohnnyBoy wrote:
I like these ideas very much, but I think that swapping a life of pirate hunting for a life of sitting in a spacebar earning money from nothing but passive income might reduce the appeal of the game...

Game time only moves when you are playing. And sitting at a Space Bar, time moves very slowly. Best way to consume time, is to go hopping from region to region, with some nice long witchspace jumps.

Edit: and therefor the incentive is rather to explore, rather than sit still. You will never, ever get rich sitting in a station, but it might just about make an interesting sideline if you are cruising the 8 charts.

MKG · Post by **MKG** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:02 pm

How about limiting the period of any investment? Aren't banking instruments just like this (I think it's banking instruments)? Heavy investment for a fixed period with the possibility of high returns - but if you want to keep on making money, you have to invest all over again. And I do believe that you get involved in banking instruments by invitation only.

Mike

pagroove · Post by **pagroove** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:34 pm

Good ideas here!
Will add new depth to Oolite.

Guy Nelson · Post by **Guy Nelson** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:12 pm

Hi.

First post to the forum, but I've played quite a bit.

I hope you don't my jumping into the topic...

Legal Issues
If your record turns into Offender, you cannot get any new loans or conditions get much worse.
If you turn into a Fugitive, the government/police freezes your assets - all your assets (money, shares in stations, shipping, etc.).
If you get clean again, you'll have to hire a lawyer which negotiates the unfreezing of the assets, of course for a small fee (5% of the assets) and the police will of course also take some percentage for administrative work rendered.

Bank-related Crime
If money is transferred and stored eletronically, should it not follow that crimes are committed by hackers (--> Hacker Outposts?). Those guys fly their ships near to communication equipment of the banking stations and intercept and alter the data stream.
If such a hacker ship is identified, you can hunt it down and force them to re-transfer the money if it's yours. And if it isn't yours, perhaps they will bribe you into leaving them alone.
The other way this could play out is that you're hired to hunt down a hacker ship by a bank or a private person and force them to pay back the stolen money.

Other ideas would be to be hired to hunt down someone who has committed insurance fraud or investigate a lost shipment due to Thargon attacks (but it turns out the ship was merely redirected into the next Anarchy system).
This could make bounty hunting much more rewarding...

Signing off,

Commander Nelson

Commander McLane · Post by **Commander McLane** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:30 am

Hi, Guy Nelson, and first of all welcome to the boards, and of course to this great game!

Some very good suggestions here!

I definitely want to make the availability and/or price of a loan depending on your legal status. The negotiation after becoming clear again is a nice idea.

Your other ideas are noted as well. It's just that I first want to concentrate on getting the basic bank business work. But in a second step some more mission related stuff could easily be integrated.

Thanks for your thoughts!

*****

@ everybody: I could use some suggestions for bank names, perhaps even with a (very) brief self-description of the bank for the introductory screen after docking. Something like

Welcome to the First Bank of Tionisla, commander. We offer custom made banking solutions for everybody, from poor agricultural frogs, to rich industrial insects.

'Poons' with 'oo' possible, but not mandatory. (Banks tend to be conservative.) And it doesn't need to be as lame as my ad-hoc example (don't worry, you won't meet that in the finished OXP).