Military Fiasco bug with ships

[Screet]

Hi,

I checked my log because of something else and found these warnings and errors from military fiasco:

[script.javaScript.warning.206]: ----- JavaScript warning: The ability to pass three numbers instead of a vector is deprecated and will be removed in a future version of Oolite. Use an array literal instead (for instance, replace v.add(1, 2, z) with v.add([1, 2, z]).
[script.javaScript.warning.206]: AddOns/military Fiasco 2.4.1.oxp/Scripts/militaryFiasco.js, line 244.
[script.javaScript.warning.206]: ----- JavaScript warning: The ability to pass three numbers instead of a vector is deprecated and will be removed in a future version of Oolite. Use an array literal instead (for instance, replace v.add(1, 2, z) with v.add([1, 2, z]).
[script.javaScript.warning.206]: AddOns/military Fiasco 2.4.1.oxp/Scripts/militaryFiasco.js, line 245.
[ship.subentity.sanityCheck.failed.details]: Attempt to set subentity taking damage of <ShipEntity 0x16c4f528>{"Basilisk Laser Mount"} to <ShipEntity 0xb432b98>{"Basilisk Laser Mount" ID: 0 position: (-3.33, 2.8, 0) scanClass: CLASS_CARGO status: STATUS_INACTIVE}, which is not a subentity.
[ship.subentity.sanityCheck.failed]: ***** VALIDATION ERROR: <ShipEntity 0x11f29ac8>{"Basilisk Laser Mount"} thinks it's a subentity of <PlayerEntity 0xb4bab10>{"Griff Boa"}, but the supposed parent does not agree. This is an internal error, please report it.

Maybe the sanity-check problem is similar to that one with a Thargoid-ship and an asteroid? Maybe that's a problem of the test version 1.72.2?

Screet

[Eric Walch]

I checked my log because of something else and found these warnings and errors from military fiasco:

[script.javaScript.warning.206]: ----- JavaScript warning: The ability to pass three numbers instead of a vector is deprecated and will be removed in a future version of Oolite. Use an array literal instead (for instance, replace v.add(1, 2, z) with v.add([1, 2, z]).
[script.javaScript.warning.206]: AddOns/military Fiasco 2.4.1.oxp/Scripts/militaryFiasco.js, line 244.
[script.javaScript.warning.206]: ----- JavaScript warning: The ability to pass three numbers instead of a vector is deprecated and will be removed in a future version of Oolite. Use an array literal instead (for instance, replace v.add(1, 2, z) with v.add([1, 2, z]).

This part is a known "error" of the oxp. I knew it when 1.72 came out. It was the only command that gave a warning. But it only happens when the final target is added and it is a warning, not an error. It will only stop working with oolite 1.74 and that is a long way from now. I wanted to some more improvements before re-uploading it.

Soon the endgame becomes even more difficult after 100 military-pirate kills. The defenders stay closer to the carrier. But the first time you kill the carrier, the oxp still uses murghs original script. And that has currently a big problem because all trader escorts that arrive at the main station try to dock at the station closest to the player. This results in that the carrier keeps getting docking request. It hardly can move because it is hardcoded that such a request stops a carrier.

And after 150 military-pirate kills the pirates might hyperjump when all the lasers are shot of. In that case you have to decide to follow him through the hole to kill him, or let him escape and do your business in the current system.

[Screet]

Soon the endgame becomes even more difficult after 100 military-pirate kills. The defenders stay closer to the carrier. But the first time you kill the carrier, the oxp still uses murghs original script. And that has currently a big problem because all trader escorts that arrive at the main station try to dock at the station closest to the player. This results in that the carrier keeps getting docking request. It hardly can move because it is hardcoded that such a request stops a carrier.

And after 150 military-pirate kills the pirates might hyperjump when all the lasers are shot of. In that case you have to decide to follow him through the hole to kill him, or let him escape and do your business in the current system.

Concerning the docking, this appears to be a massive bug to me. I was able to shoot a carrier ship today (one without docking bay) for quite some time, but it did nothing. I then hit shift-c and the DC tried to dock, but obviously had no proper approach. With hostile constitutions or juggernaut/behemoth/... ships, it typically works to make them peaceful by requesting docking permission. I believe the code should check if the ships really match for docking and deny if it doesn't fit.

What you wrote about even tougher Leviathans, it sounds like I definitely need a new ship! The GriffBoa looks nice, but one laser just ain't enough for me - I had very much trouble with the last Leviathan flying that ship, until I found out that the carrier has no aft turrets. Still it took awful long...and en route to the system some buggy ship/station mixture (are all dockable ships equipped with station flags?) made me fugitive *GRRR*

Any ideas why the Basilisk Laserpod tried to attach itself to the GriffBoa I've been flying? This bug looks to me like that with the Thargoid and the Asteroid I reported some weeks ago...noone really understood, what was going on, but apparently an asteroid thought it would belong to the Thargoid ship...

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[Screet]

And that has currently a big problem because all trader escorts that arrive at the main station try to dock at the station closest to the player. This results in that the carrier keeps getting docking request.

Grrr. Just saw the carrier again...and this time it even managed to get killed before I could get close! A constitution tried to dock on the Leviathan, which created something really odd looking. Those ships approached each other with their noses...very slowly...until both blew up the same time.

Seems that the problem you wrote about really needs some fixing, regardless if that was also a bug of the constitution...I'm looking forward for a version when ships will not be able to dock if their ship is larger than the selected docking bay.

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[Eric Walch]

And that has currently a big problem because all trader escorts that arrive at the main station try to dock at the station closest to the player. This results in that the carrier keeps getting docking request.

Grrr. Just saw the carrier again...and this time it even managed to get killed before I could get close! A constitution tried to dock on the Leviathan, which created something really odd looking. Those ships approached each other with their noses...very slowly...until both blew up the same time.

This looks like a big bug in the constitution. A ship to big to dock should never have a role or AI that lets him dock. Bugs are programmed that way. I never understood how such ships even were released in the first place. Better drop that oxp, there are mane more good ships oxp, like the stuff from Griff.

[Ark]

This looks like a big bug in the constitution. A ship to big to dock should never have a role or AI that lets him dock. Bugs are programmed that way. I never understood how such ships even were released in the first place.

Neither do I. And unfortunately there are plenty of them (Ixian battlecruser ect).

Back in the days of 1.65 and in my old PC I had very difficult times when I tried to understand why oolite suddenly hanged without any reason at all. When I start searching it was those kinds of ships that caused this problem every time they tried to dock. By giving them the AI of a trader or something like that the authors did a terrible (and obvious) mistake at the first place.
The extent of this problem was forced Gilles to plane writing an oolite build-in AI for large vessels in 1.66 (although oolite does not have that kind of native ships), but this never happened.

[Eric Walch]

This looks like a big bug in the constitution. A ship to big to dock should never have a role or AI that lets him dock. Bugs are programmed that way. I never understood how such ships even were released in the first place.

Neither do I. And unfortunately there are plenty of them (Ixian battlecruser ect).

That Ixian battle cruiser behaves already very well on my computer for about a year or so. Maybe I should upload this improvements for the community

The extent of this problem was forced Gilles to plane writing an oolite build-in AI for large vessels in 1.66 (although oolite does not have that kind of native ships), but this never happened.

I have also tried it but it is not really possible. I now let the battle cruiser patrol like police. Also thargoid lets his big aquatic ships patrol.
With transports.oxp I added a big fueltanker. To big to dock. It flies to the station and releases its fueltanks, that than fly and dock on their own. But I had a real problem what to do with the empty tanker. It should go somewhere so I let it jump out. But when the player follows him, it still should do something sensible. So I let him become a sun-skimmer from than on. But he probably will burn in the sun before he scooped fuel. All sun-skimmers without heat-shielding burn up. At least I got rid of the ship.
I think this is the same problem Giles had: Were should big ships go when not patrolling? The GRS station has a non-standard docking port. There could big ships dock. The ships that now dock externally at the GRS station, can also dock internally. But when you create big ships that dock, you should also create stations to dock on.

[Commander McLane]

Alternatively they could arrive somewhere near the station, release a swarm of small shuttles which can dock at the station, and jump out. Delivery made.

[Screet]

Alternatively they could arrive somewhere near the station, release a swarm of small shuttles which can dock at the station, and jump out. Delivery made.

Yeah, that's the direction I'd like to see in the game. Remeber B5? The big ships were always unable to dock and used transports to the station! No problem with such behaviour.

Anyway, I'll talk with that oxp creator because in the recent test version there are (for my liking) too many big ships around, as if galcop did already fall apart...

Maybe mission oxp's would generally benefit if they could ask some way if other special stuff is already running, in order to prevent too many randomly initiated stuff that blocks each other or destroys missions like Eric said. Currently, I often get many things at the same time, then nothing for a while, then many things at once...as if those oxps would somehow have similar timers in order to launch the next special thing.

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[wackyman465]

Or stations could have an airlock on the side that huge ships could dock next to...

[Screet]

Or stations could have an airlock on the side that huge ships could dock next to...

Hmmm. I guess that could prove to be a problem because it requires two highly massive objects to a very difficult procedure and even more difficulty in maintaining that lock. On the other hand, just flying close to a big cargo entrance should work: the scoop technology should then be able to release the cargo from the transporting ship into space just before the "scoop" opening of the station for a direct and more speedy transfer compared to loading everything onto tiny transports to move it to the station.

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[Eric Walch]

Alternatively they could arrive somewhere near the station, release a swarm of small shuttles which can dock at the station, and jump out. Delivery made.

Yeah, that's the direction I'd like to see in the game. Remeber B5? The big ships were always unable to dock and used transports to the station! No problem with such behaviour.

Currently that is what the deep space dredgers do: Fly to the planet and there launch a whole lot of shuttles that fly their cargo to the surface. However, the ships are rare in the space lanes and even rarer close to the planet as they are always added at a distance.

[wackyman465]

Mayhaps there could be a non-moving special interstellar super-ship dock, that didn't move and had huge slits on the side, which match those of, say, a behemoth, so then the ship can dock slit-to-slit, and share a hanger for transfer of goods, fuel, ships, missiles?...

[Commander McLane]

My suggestion was meant to be primarily one thing: Easy to realize. You could write an AI that does it in five minutes, and then all big ships could get this AI. To make it into a working package with the to-be-spawned shuttles will probably take 15 minutes. Whoever would like to use the package would then have to open his OXPs that contain big ships, and change their AIs to this new AI (at least until the OXPs have been revised by their authors).

All complicated suggestions which involve altering all existing stations, or creating new and complex methods of 'docking' with new and complex stations are primarily this: complicated. And therefore it isn't likely that we would see them in-game anytime soon.

[Lestradae]

Hi Commander McLane,

I actually agree with your suggested solution(s) for big ships here, and will probably go down this route for my future OSE.

My problem is that I want to have my ships called by role via the system populator, and then the game takes this AI automatically. So, a hijacked Behemoth pirate (fictional example) would have a pirate's AI, a Deep Space Dredger with role trader will attempt to dock via route1traderAI etc.

Is there a way to let a ship be called by a standard role and still use an alternate AI than the standard AI? I thought it was not possible, perhaps I'm mistaken.

And calling yet additional ships into being for alternate carrier scripts - hm, Oolite already has a memory problem (let's not split hairs about this) and I don't want to further overcrowd everything ...

Solution suggestions very welcome,

L