Fuel Scoops for Cargo on 1.72

beeze · Post by **beeze** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:17 am

Was playing the 1.65 version - now upgraded to 1.72

I've noticed that when scooping for cargo, sometimes it can take 30s (as per 1.65) to get cargo into the hold - but now cargo can just get 'dropped' after a number of seconds - not collected, and I have to slow down and go back for it. This never happened on 1.65 - has there been updates to the logic in scooping for 1.7x

beeze · Post by **beeze** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:36 am

This 'cargo dropping' is really annoying

It's turning the pleasurable experience of scooping cargo into a real pain - I'm seriously considering ditching 1.72 and returning back to 1.65

Super Jamie · Post by **Super Jamie** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:40 am

If that is indeed the behaviour, I'd consider it to be an upgrade.

I think it's a tad "unrealistic" how you can catch something in the scoop in 1.65, then Fuel Inject away and have it follow you the rest of the way.

beeze · Post by **beeze** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:53 am

I know what you're saying but I disagree.

Reliable cargo scooping was always a positive feature of Elite that I played back in the 80s and was with oolite. It was a real pleasure to get behind (say) a Python and scoop in 5+ cargo's in one pass. Now I'm having to slow down/backtrack to re-collect cargo and metal fragments - and if it's an 'feature' of 1.7x then I am against it because IMO the pleasure of the game has been sacrificed for flight-sim 'realism'.

I'll wait to see if anyone from the 1.7x dev team can shed some light to tell if there's been 'updates' to cargo scooping.

Frame · Post by **Frame** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:50 pm

Prolly something to do with the change in code handling of the players ship, afaik, there was not "planned" such a change...

beeze · Post by **beeze** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:09 pm

Frame wrote:
Prolly something to do with the change in code handling of the players ship, afaik, there was not "planned" such a change...

Personally, I'm happy to hear that! "If it ain't broke it doesn't need fixing"

Right now I'm playing (not at the same time!!!) 1.72 and 1.73 (trunk). Both exhibit this behaviour:-

. Cargo/Metal Frags gets dropped roughly 1 in 3 attempts.
. Cargo/Metal Frags which gets dropped appears to be 2+ km astern even if I slow down to dead slow and pull up to re-collect.
. Cargo/Metal Frag can take ~60s scooping before it get either collected or dropped.

I'm still playing on Cobra Mark III, if that helps. I've no idea if (1) Happens with other ships or (2) Other players get this 'feature'.

Bottom line..is this a bug? (Beeze sits back, dons the asbestos suit and waits for the flames)

Hope someone can look at it, coz it's pee'ing me off.

Post by **Eric Walch** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:46 pm

beeze wrote:
This 'cargo dropping' is really annoying

It's turning the pleasurable experience of scooping cargo into a real pain - I'm seriously considering ditching 1.72 and returning back to 1.65

I don't think it is changed recently. It is changed somewhere before 1.65. Around that time a tractor beam is introduced to make scooping more realistic.

When a ship gets close enough to cargo it starts to activate its beam. It pulls the cargo in the direction of the scoop position. When you look into the code it tries to imitate real physics at this point. Result is that when you hit the cargo with the scoop position of your ship, it immediately will scoop in. When not, the tractor beam has to pull the cargo in the direction of the scoops but cargo is given a certain inertia.

This tractor behaviour gives some very nice visuals when you look at NPC ships in the process of scooping. Sometimes it is just like they are pulling the cargo along at a long rope. Take your time to look at this. (Best do this observation with miners collecting splinters and not pirates collecting their loot.)

Same is valid for the player: the higher your speed the more difficult to scoop. Just lower your speed and it will scoop-in your cargo much faster. But fastest is still to hit the cargo at exactly the scooping position on first cargo contact.

My experience with a boa-II is that I rarely lose cargo as long as I don't use injectors. Doing a full stop until cargo is scooped-in and than fuel-inject brings me faster to a destination than flying at full speed until the cargo is scooped in and than fuel-inject.

Alex · Post by **Alex** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:51 am

I found in V65 that if you could get a whack of stuff in the tractor beam at the same time your hold would go over limit, very handy for that little extra something for the mrs. The trick with 71 is to get right up behind and match speed to the heavy hauler before the final blast, then do a slow pitch over the stuff you can get it all in one go. Ever seen the cargo that goes faster than your ship can? That's caused by slingshotting it with the fuel injectors. I suppose if you got real good at that you could use them as unguided missiles?? A ton of alloys moving at over .5 or .6 could give you a bit of a headache!

Commander McLane · Post by **Commander McLane** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:20 am

Myself I wouldn't say that there was a major change in scooping behaviour since 1.65, but of course I could be wrong.

cleopas · Post by **cleopas** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:17 am

i too have noticed this behaviour, spending many hours over the weekend in a cobra mkII, in fact, around 20-30% of cases that i try to scoop the cargo the blibblobblib noise just continues continuously for 30 seconds or so until i do a full roll and change speed etc , and finally the cargo goes into the hold, or gets spat out VERY close to the ship - i.e. face full of cargo.

ClymAngus · Post by **ClymAngus** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:22 am

If you scoop and inject at just the right moment, you can catapult the cargo pod away from you faster than you can travel flat out, That's way cool.

Captain Hesperus · Post by **Captain Hesperus** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:07 pm

ClymAngus wrote:
If you scoop and inject at just the right moment, you can catapult the cargo pod away from you faster than you can travel flat out, That's way cool.

Yes, I actually mananged to kill a Sidewinder with a cannister of food in this manner.

Captain Hesperus

Cmdr Wyvern · Post by **Cmdr Wyvern** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:11 pm

ClymAngus wrote:
If you scoop and inject at just the right moment, you can catapult the cargo pod away from you faster than you can travel flat out, That's way cool.

I used the injector catapult trick to booster launch missiles.

It's especially useful on fleeing, fast ships.

Commander McLane · Post by **Commander McLane** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:10 am

Captain Hesperus wrote:
ClymAngus wrote:
If you scoop and inject at just the right moment, you can catapult the cargo pod away from you faster than you can travel flat out, That's way cool.
Yes, I actually mananged to kill a Sidewinder with a cannister of food in this manner.

Captain Hesperus

Wow!

That opens whole new possibilities for dogfight!

'Eat that, sucker!'

Captain Tylor · Post by **Captain Tylor** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:16 pm

Commander McLane wrote:
Captain Hesperus wrote:
ClymAngus wrote:
If you scoop and inject at just the right moment, you can catapult the cargo pod away from you faster than you can travel flat out, That's way cool.
Yes, I actually mananged to kill a Sidewinder with a cannister of food in this manner.

Captain Hesperus
Wow!

That opens whole new possibilities for dogfight!

'Eat that, sucker!'

Or maybe an idea for an OXP a missile that is ECM proof that doesn`t follow its target, does more damage and is slower giving you a chance of meeting it again if fired towards planet.